really, 3 hookers, a 6 and a 7 and only 2 of them act as playmakers?

My point is, im not sure we have to limit our selves to one/two playmakers, many teams play, at times, with 3 or 4 even 5 pivots in the side, it makes their plays harder to read, allows them to play more expansive RL, keeps the defence guessing.

Sinfield is playing at standoff this year not loose. When both are playing at loose forward O'Loughlin is easily as good as Sinfield with ball in hand. Look at the stats in 2010 when both were at 13 ...

[urlhttp://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2010&hp1=580&hs2=2010&hp2=263&stat=tries&season=2011[/url

He scores more trys, more asists, more metres, and more tackles. Sinfield is a quality player and is performing well at the moment and tbh i think he suits playing 6 more. This year at 6 is stats are great ...

[urlhttp://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2011&hp1=580&hs2=2011&hp2=263&stat=tries&season=2011[/url

TBF to O'Loughlin this year he's been rested alot and played only 40-50 mins in a good 6 or 7 games atleast, and has rarely played the full 80. But the stats show how good Sinfield has been, but at 6 thats were he should be for England aswell. As has previously been mentioned Sam Tomkins at 1 brings the running game of a 6 into the attacking dimensions and Brough is'nt a bad runner of the ball as he's proved with some of his trys this year. A core set of playmakers in ...

1. Tomkins
6. Sinfield
7. Brough
9. Roby
13. O'Loughlin
S. Robinson

A good mixture of organisers and runners all imo of course.

Mcguire is a far far better 6 than Sinfield. Sinfield played half the season at 6 last season as well with Mcguire playing 7 when Burrow was injured.

Sinfield is better with ball in hand, the try assist stat is notoriously inconsistant, but Sinfield offloads more, his passing is better and more consistent, and he has a much better kicking game.

I see nothing in putting a 'bigger' player like O'loughlin at 13 that wouldnt be achieved by playing 2 props and 2 2nd rowers on the bench

My team (not withstanding injuries)

1 Tomkins/Widdop
2 Hall
3 whoever, doesnt really matter, we can go for an experienced average player like Atkins, Yeaman, or Bridge, or give a shot to a young gun like Watkins or Lawrence.
4 Shenton
5 Briscoe
6 Mcguire
7 Brough (im not sold on him, I dont think he is the answer, but he is the form 7 and has earned his shot)
8 Graham
9 Roby
10 Peacock
11 Ellis
12 O'loughlin
13 Sinfield

14 Burgess
15 Morley
16 J Tomkins
17 Crabtree

It gives us flexibility, Tomkins can cover centre so with a bit of rejigging the backs are covered, Sinfield can cover 13/6 and 9 and Mcguire 7 so the halves are covered and hooker are covered.

We go with a big strong pack, lots of impact on that bench,

ellis & burgess are'nt coming back for it

sorry, that should say (not withstanding injuries or players being in Aus)

If we're picking half backs that can't kick/organise, then we might as well give up now.

With Brough in the side, and Roby able to play 80 minutes, there's no place for Sinfield IMO.

He's a very good player and an absolute must in a Leeds team with no real kicking game from the halves, but with a kicking game like Brough's he's simply not required and we're better off with someone with better and more punishing defence and a more size to take us forward.

Too many cooks can spoil the broth though. It can keep the defence guessing, but sometimes the attack is a bit more destabilised because there are too many people trying to call the shots.

It can indeed, but im not sure we have that 'luxury' of having too many cooks spoiling the broth.

How about : Too many cheifs and not enough indians?

Welham is worth a go at centre, he has improved massively and his defence has been brilliant this season. His attacking play is up with the best so far this season.

Still, im not sure we have enough players who can impose themselves on the game to worry about it.

You may be right, but picking more of them in a 17 than we [ishould[/i need won't solve many problems imo.

The point i made earlier was that many teams do play with more than 1 or 2 pivots.

Leeds do it with Mcguire, Sinfield, Webb, and playing Buderus and McShane at the same time.
Hudds do it with Lunt, Faiumum, Brown, Robinson and Brough,
Wigan will even sometimes play Tomkins, Finch, Deacon, and Tommy L, shifting him to an extra half back when Mcilorum is brought on.

I dont see why England couldnt easily play with Tomkins, Brough, Mcguire, Sinfield, moving down to three when Sinfield either comes off or moves up to hooker to give Roby a rest.

We would gain more by doing that and going with 2 props and 2 back rowers on the bench, than 2 props a back rower and a hooker.

Tomkins
McGilivray
Tomkins
Bridge
Briscoe
Brown
Brough
Graham
Roby
Morley
Westwood
Harrison
O'Loughlin

Robinson
Mossop
Crabtree
Peacock


4Ns team
Tomkins
McGilveray
Tomkins
Bridge
Briscoe
Widdop
Brough
Graham
Roby
Morley
Ellis
Burgess
O'Loughlin

McGuire/Robinson
Mossop/Westwood
Hock (I have faith)
Peacock

You'd take out harrison for hock? Why on earth would you do that?

Because he has faith.

He's missed 36 tackles, doesn't sound too brilliant.

Biggest difference between Huddersfield and Hull today was the kicking game of Danny Brough – McNamara has to build the England team around him

this is true

I agree with regards to Brough. Watching Widdop at the storm he compliments Cronk very well with his style of play, and although Brough isn't Cronk I'd look forward to seeing that partnership.

its a shame we can't get widdop over for this....we need to know if brough & widdop would work

Lomax is doing well at Saints, would be good to see how he'd go at 7.

is'nt he in the knights squad?

I think Lomax needs a longer run in the first team (injury free) first. He's always been disrupted by injury just when he got going, so it's maybe a bit too soon for him.

Definately a talent though.

I think the toughest position to pick is the two centres, Shenton, Cudjoe, Clubb and Atkins went on tour last year but Bridge and Yeaman have shown some good form.
Is Gleeson out of the picture ?
Bit of a shame Kallum Watkins is injured as he showed some good form before that.