I think that maybe the club originally marketed it self too heavily as the team that wins every week. Easier said than done, but it's surely healthier to not be so dependent on good results. In any case, if only winning teams are to get crowds, where does that leave the league? Stands to reason that more than half of it can't be putting together long unbeaten runs at the same time.

I agree about the summer time point - maybe we shouldn't be surprised that weather reminiscent of the Northern days brings crowds reminiscent of the Northern days.

I don't think that it's neccesserily the results it's the feeling of confidence around the place. For eample other clubs pull em in despite not winning that many games because they still have hope. Even the most blinkered Bulls fan (me for eample) is starting to lose hope. The club can't for whatever reason manufacture that and they aren;'t in a position to pay a big transfer fee (we are led to believe) to prize away a big name mid contract despite (we are led to believe) having the slary cap space to accomodate their wages so the only way to manufacture that is to win a few games in a row. The manner of the defeats has hightened that feeling of hopelessness and the whole thing doesn't have that kudos.

If the club could get that buzz back for the families it would mean that parents wouldn't have a choice but to be bugged into coming no matter what the results. But who knows how to get that.

Wigan still get the fans in despite not winning anything for years, no prematch entertainment, a sterile ground with no atmosphere (although state of the art, that they don't own and now play second fiddle in to a soccer team that 10 years ago weren't even full time.

The fans going now, recognise the quota rules and financial state of the game in general, would I think be more satisfied to see a successful team based on youngsters who have come through our system but that doesn't necessarily bring a wow factor to bring in new supporters. Unless we luck out with players who are natural with the media side of things marketing it round them is going to be difficult. As good a player as Sam is he doesn't look the most comfortable in interviews and given he's one of our most exciting talents he would be one of those used to promote the club.

An alternative is bringing in a big name who's got a high recognition factor with the casual fan and that costs money which we don't seem to have in abundance. You can take a gamble in the hope of increasing gates and shirt sales but given the current financial situation it probably isn't the time to do that.

That leaves good results and a high league position....

I think you might be overlooking the effect of the Catalans CC game, which was in some ways even more of a public humiliation, given it was live on the BBC. To go that far ahead and then lose in such a shambolic manner invites derision, and who but ardent fans wants that association, rather stay away and wait for things to get better, or some other change that promotes excitement and a sense of possibility. TBH we can have as many give aways etc as we like but i suspect until we string a winning run together (something to be proud of), get a new coach (change/excitement) or sign a genuine world class talent/character (who can't be decried as past it or a criminal etc) I imagine we'll struggle to up the numbers.

There's obviously no budget for a marketing campaign and little at present to market that's distinctive and different (as there was in the past), so I hope our recruitment doesn't consist solely of Sam Obst and/or Brad Drew or I might struggle to find the arguments for forking out on a season ticket next year...

This can be coached to a degree though.

I remember Fielden and Peacock both being uncomfortable in front of camera, a few seasons in and they'd become the opposite.

I'm sure it's part of player development. Or have I dreamt that?

Yeah media coaching was certainly part of player development but while Fielden and Peacock became more comfortable with it compare them to someone who was a natural extrovert, like Robbie, and i know who would promote the club better.

I have commented before on your site.........Get rid of that dated 'Bully Bully' music after every try...it really sounds dated now and quite pathetic. I know some clubs encourage drums, but IMO they do not encourage singing. You need to get behind the club and stop being cardboard cut out fans, creat an atmosphere! The team have lost confidence, but you have some great players in your team. I hope you turn it around.

You have a point. I have been saying for a long time that it was a mistake for the club to try to create an artificial, homogenised wall of formula sound to direct every stage of the game. Before the game - fine. During the game - well, some might say just switch the fscking speakers off altogether. I'm not sure about that, but have long said that, when as soon as a try is socred, some guy hits the sound button, this would eventually destroy (and has now, totally, destroyed) the spontaneous shouting, screaming, cheering and carrying on which used to exist, and which is the normal reaction.

Instead, people have little choice but to join in the prescribed ditty, or nothing. All that the Bulls have done in recent years is upgrade the sound system so it would now drown out your average volcanic eruption.

Maybe if there was a 23000 crowd then weight of numbers could give the sound system a run for its money, but still.

So the death of spontaneous noise at Odsal, like the low crowd vs. Celtic, is not down to any single reason, but in the case of general noise, the club took the decision to replace it with pre-programmed noise, and people have become conditioned to that.

Does anyone go to Old Trafford, Elland Road or Stamford Bridge? What happens when a goal is scored there? Are people still allowed to celebrate spontaneously, or has compulsory singalong taken over there too?

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/rugby-le ... 5294329.jp

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/rugby-le ... 5294329.jp

Yes.
And no sound system there!

I have said before the passion, loyalty and commitment of the fans I mix with at Chelsea (and I suspect other football clubs) is unrivalled by any RL club.
That's where we need to get to.....! How is the question!

One point though, although much louder and more often, the singing is still fragmented at home games with different pockets of the ground making noise at different times. It is by no means a continuous, unified wall of sound. At away games it is - which reflects what happens with the Bulls support really.

Odsal is never going to be a "singing" ground unless they put a roof over the terraces. Even at peak there wasnt much singing, largely because the demographics of the crowd didnt suit it ie lots of male teenagers = singing, lots of families = non singing. Despite that the atmosphere at Odsal was enjoyable, albeit in a different way to other grounds.

I dont really think that there would be much to be gained from increased marketing spend at the moment. The benefits of marketing follow on from a feelgood factor on the playing side. Not so much success in itself, more the prospect of good things about to happen as in 1996. During the Bullmania era very few, apart from the toddlers, went to Odsal just for the pre match entertainment.

It's not by any means just the singing though - far from it. It's just my opinion, but my view is that constantly overriding the normal natural shouting with loud music is what's decimated what used to be a much more vociferous atmosphere.

And I'm not trying to oversimplify, either, I'm not suggesting it's just that, but I do believe it's a very big factor.

I've never thought of that before but now you point it out, it's very true.

Interesting article. Such a lot depends on the OSV. If it comes off it will remove the financial millstone but if it doesn't...

Even if we had a brand spanking new ground tomorrow it would take time for the crowds to come back. A successful 1st team is critical and I can't see that happening until our academy lads are starting to come through, that's some years off yet.

I just hope we've a club left when they're ready.

That's a massive gamble to put all your hopes on a bunch of kids who might not make it is a bit silly.

A new ground, IMO, does mean increased crowds, even if for only a season. It's the "come and see" factor. Also, more modern facilities might see more families returning to Odsal as they no longer need to worry about their kids getting hypothermia in the Bradford "sunshine"



But I agree, the survival of the Bulls hangs greatly on the outcome of the OSV/stadium redevelop or a move to VP. TBH the choice of VP or no rugby club in Bradford is no choice at all.

No it isn't, look at Wigan 2008 for instance. Or teams like Man City, Leeds Utd., even our good friends at VP. No doubt it's a very helpful factor.




If you mean, IF we turn out to have a handful of gems, good enough to be in a challenging for honours side, they will only be a decent sized nucleus in a few years? Well maybe. But they don't all come out of an oven on a "ping", they are gradually blooded and slowly over a period of time become increasingly established.

It is this process which is the start of any ultimately successful SL team. Of course there's no guarantees - everyone is trying to do the same - but in my view the current crop bode well for the future and we have more reason to be optimistic than many teams.

But this is why at the start of the year I was going on and on about us being some years away from aspiring to the mantle of THE top team again. Yes on paper we have a decent squad, and probably few would argue that it should not have done a sight better, but it was never a challenegr for Best Team and won't be next year either.


Sure. There are ways to promote a feelgood factor at any club, regardless of results. Perceived performance being one of them. In terms of doing the right things to keep the faithful happy, we are failing badly and that's why many are disenchanted. They see some players apparently not being arrsed, and then they read written admissions from players in the press that indeed this is the case.

If for example we were exactly where we are now in the league, but had ONLY played the entire Academy/Reserves throughout and they had, to a man, tried their bollox off, then I reckon many of the disgruntled would appreciate this, and the majority would be fairly gruntled. Just my own POV, but the combination of things are seriously peeing a lot of fans off, and it could be avoided is my point even if we aren't winning everything.

Welcome to the NT. You will like it here!

On occasions when your blood pressure is lower, I think you probably realise that the claim that all the PT ever do is post positive spin and smoke and mirrors is very far from the truth.

PT were not the initials I used, they were af.

In any order.

Those clubs don't suffer from the same level of supporter apathy as Bradford. Without a successful team I can only see us mirroring the levels of support at Hudders at best, they too have a smart new ground yet it's not meant they've pulled in regular 5 figure crowds. Good marketing and a successful side are key, I'd say that we, more than most, need a side that's finishing in the top 4 at least.

[i...and I can't see that happening until our academy lads are starting to come through, that's some years off yet.[/i

That's because our best prospects seem to be aged 16-19 and are some way off first team selection. Sure some will progress quicker than others but it'll be a few years before any make it through. At best we can hope for two first teamers to come through each year but that's in a good year.

[i ...I just hope we've a club left when they're ready. [/i



A slogan I've seen on info coming out of the club lately is "building for the future". I reckon the club needs to really start peddling this line a bit more and perhaps be a bit more bullish about the future. I agree totally with your analysis in the two paragraphs above.



I'm happier seeing the club invest in the juniors more as if you look at Leeds it's clearly the path to ensure a sustainable long term future. The key is to find a balance so the current first team isn't allowed to wither on the vine too much. That's my main concern, that we're over concentrating on juniors to the detriment of the first team. Top players have been replaced by average ones and we're reaping the "rewards" of this strategy. Ideally we want to bring our youngsters into a fairly good 1st team enviroment and we obviously don't have that at the moment, it's a worry.

The thing is though, why not? Reverting back to that old chestnut, on paper, it should be amonst the best environments, shouldn't it? As I understand it, our whole setup is (apparently) one of the best and most attractive for the top young names to sign for, (however much anyone might sneer at that, the proof is in the signatures). And when you have the likes of Menzies, Morrison, Newton, Lynch to mentor you? I agree it's a worry, I'm just struggling to understand why.

And now, the M62 beckons.

I may be some time.

As mere fans I doubt we'll ever know for sure, we can only speculate.

And now the Leeds to Skipton train beckons!

I'll sithee!

Yep, I keep coming across this too. And I agree, lets shout about how and why we're building for the future.

Do we have a 2 year plan, 5 year plan?
I hope and suspect so.

If your not in the first team squad as a junior you never get to see these players.