I think some are missing the point. Next wk every bulls player will go in search of a new clubs leaving no players...or dead wood that no one wants. Many would say that the dismantling of a club isn't an unfair advantage given by the rfl

Devastating

Thats the route i was thinking, say cas and wakey want one of our players would the other teams then have to vote on where said players goes, or would it just be players choice?

The feeder system will be very like the NRL then if that does happen as alot of the top teams have feeder clubs in the lower leagues. Also similar to Real Madrid and Barcelona who have feeder clubs which run as their reserves playing in the second tier of spanish football

You might have an axe to grind with the RFL, Superleague, the other clubs, but I fail to see what possible reason you have to have a go at we the fans.

If you look up "debts" in any convenient dictionary, you will learn that this is a word which is traditionally used to refer to money which is owed historically. I.e in what we know as "the past".

Now, look up "future". This is all about things which haven't happened yet. If I buy a business, then indeed I will be responsible for any liabilities it incurs "going forward". I.e in what we know as "the future".

Once you manage (if you do) to grasp the difference between "past" and "future", you then need to progress to more complex expressions, starting with 2-word terms. Work on that, and you'll be well on the way to understanding that "past debts" (which means debts that were run up in the past) is completely different from future liabilities (which means liabilities that will be incurred in the future)

HTH

It's a bwoody disgwace!

Bwadford should have been liquidated. Wigan would then open up a five point gap, Leeds would move down a place in the table and Huddersfield would drop down to 8th. All cwubs they are due to pway away would wose out on wevenue because they wouldn't have a game to put on.

SL would wose the cwedibility it deserves to lose and would weduce the value of any new title sponsorship deal the RFL and SLE are going for.

Wook at the SPL and Wangers. The cwub chairman and economists going on about cwubs getting into financial difficulty and reduction of sponsorship monies because they aren't there. That's what we should have!!!

That's the wight thing to do for the good of the game. This stinks!!!!

Seriously though this is all dependant on Guilfoyle playing ball and is just the start of a long and painful road for us fans. It'll mean there's a club to support for the next five matches though and that's the main thing. I just hope the poor sods that have been working gratis for two months get sorted.

I don't see this as being a certainty that the Bulls will be in SL next year. SLE need to complete this years fixture list and this does that.

If someone buys the Bulls then fair enough, if the Bulls get to the end of the year with no buyer, then SLE could make sure Bradford drop into the lower leagues and run it at cost, or maybe even a profit.

The cost of the investment by SLE to buy the Bulls could be recouped by the member teams, through the increase in TV revenue each year from having the Bulls drop out of SL.

I don't know the figures, but say SLE need to pay £1million for the Bulls and the amount from sky per club is £1million. Then SLE cover the cost of purchase with the Sky money.

It's slightly more than that actually, I think. It was originally reported as a £90+million 5-year deal, which is £18 million p/a split 14 ways, or £1.3m per club.

Not sure about this, it means we will see the end of the season then if still no buyers we will be gone. RFL could be playing a blinder here!!!

I'm not sure why anyone thinks SLE will be paying anything to "buy" the Bulls, the costs they will incur are simply in running the club, as a newco, until the end of November.

Part of me is now hoping that we do see Bradford in SL next year now (up until now its been a case of, if they cant manage their own affairs they deserve to go). Can you image the fun that other supporters have when Bradford come to town. "We own you........OFFICIAL!"......

presumably SLE will have to pay sufficient to satisfy the creditors and pay guilfoyles bill. This figure plus costs incurred between now and end of season will be price someone has to pay to buy the club from SLE.

"We used to own you......OFFICIAL!" will probably be more accurate.Think only way we'll be in SL next year is if someone buys us from SLE. Otherwise we'll be run as a championship side at best.

The newco they will setup to run the club won't have any creditors, the RFL can transfer the clubs share to the newco without requiring any payments to anybody.

In terms of the administrators bill I'm pretty sure that is funded by whatever income has been generated over the last few weeks to keep the club going (gate receipts, money from the stock sale, donated ticket monies from Leeds) - the main reason administrators set deadlines is because they (claim they) don't have a way to fund the admin period going forward after the set deadline has passed. I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong on this.

Have they said how they are going to "run" the club? Are they going to re-employ the staff? If we run out of pitch paint who gets the blame?

Well, here's the key questions to me. (They may be rubbish questions to y'all, but hey ho

)

1. Purchase price
(a) am I right in thinking that unless SLE pay all the debts in full, any deal has to be passed by a meeting of creditors in a CVA? If yes, then:
----(i) what's the chance of HMRC agreeing to a deal at less than 100%?
----(ii) are HMRC the majority creditor, or is that RFL?
----(iii) [iCould[/i SLE even offer less than 100p/£? I mean, a newco buying the club is one thing, but surely the actual league itself couldn't be seen to be buying at a price that means the taxpayer loses a bunch of money? How would such an event sit with Sport England, etc.?

2. Once the deal is done, SLE own the Bulls. Let's say just to use round figures they had to pay £1m.
----(i) Would the clubs agree to any sale that did not recover the outlay?
----(ii) Why would a buyer come forward now, and pay £1m? For what? I don't see it. But would SLE agree to sell for little or nothing?


Except why on god's earth would anyone do that? It is the buyer who sets the price - not the seller! Any buyer couldn't give a shoite what SLE paid, why should that concern them? There's little enough chance of a proper buyer coming forward. There's zero chance of a buyer coming forward and agreeing to fork out, FOR NOTHING, a sum equivalent to repay the huge debts of some failed company! Any buyer would work out what they thing they were buying was worth, and make an offer accordingly. Which brings me to:
----(iii) Wouldn't any buyer want to know, before making an offer,
...........(a) whether they could buy the lease from the RFL, the underlease from SLE, or whether they would have to rent?
...........(b) whether they were buying a SL team or a Championship or C1 team? (In a back to square one type of way). Would SLE accept a conditional offer? If they did, would their conditional acceptance itself be conditional on the RFL in turn agreeing to sell the lease which in turn would be conditional on the Council agreeing to transfer the lease and agreeing to the subletting to the new tenants?

3. I assume there will be no moneyed buyer. Is it not the case though that, if there was, they would have to move pretty damn sharpish to have any chance at all of salvaging anything at all for next season? I mean, as matters stand, whilst SLE may become the owner, they obviously cannot sign up or renew any contract, no player would be foolish enough to sign up or extend a contract with a temporary owner with no guarantee of SL rugby next year.

4. If as I fear the end of the season comes and nobody bought the club, and it folds, where does that leave the SLE clubs? They will have royally done in their cash.

5. If some other body is formed such as a Supporters Trust, that might be feasible in order to run a new club, at Championship or C1 level, (though personally I am sceptical whether we have enough people with the time as well as ability and cash resources to afford to retire from their own lives and do that for nowt, but we shall see); how would this Trust acquire the newco? It would have no funds.
----(i) Would SLE give it away?
----(ii) If yes, where would Supporters Trust newco get the substantial funds it would need to form a credible club to operate in the championships next year?

Of course by far the biggest revenue source is season tcket sales but for the foreseeable, obviously we won't be able to sell any, since nobody has a clue what the tickets would be for.

6. Surely, given the uncertainty, one thing we will not be able to do is appoint a coaching staff; since just like ABC, a coach wants to have certainty, and is not going to take a job without having a clue in what league that job will be, and thus at what salary?

7. Presumably as part of the SLE deal the SLE will become the new subtenant of Odsal. Which may in practical terms be the only purchased item on any value, though personally I'm not sure what the underlease would in reality be worth. Would the new buyer sublet from SLE? or be expected to come up with a wedge to buy the underlease?

I wish I could see a more positive outlook, or even a less bleak one, but it just seems to me that the problems are pretty much insurmountable. But I'm no expert, so please, someone explain to me any way at all that we might be in SL in 2013. For the life of me, I can't see one, and I need cheering up.

don't worry, for the remaining home games the team you play will send their groundstaff over a day early to cut the grass and paint the pitch lines. And at least 1 person from every SL club will man the turnstiles so no-one can pocket any cash without the others knowing

There's some key questions in that last post by FA, and I wouldn't presume to have definitive answers for any of them

However my assumption for the scenario posed by Question 4 is that should the club fold, they will use the 2013 Sky TV money that would have come to the Bulls to replay the other clubs. The figures kinda stack up (granted we are only guessing). Club acquired for £1 million, and Sky TV money is c. £1.3 million per year.

That scenario would obviously be contingent on a 13 club SL in 2013

15 ways, the RFL central fund gets a slice.

what happens on Sunday, if it's a newco that's formed are all season tickets now cancelled.......?????

I think they will have to go some to get everything finalised by Sunday. Remember that at this stage it is still only a formal submission of an unconditional bid, nothing more.

The SLE bid will be, to pay running costs to the end of the season , to pay a % of debts ( much of which will be to the RFL ) , then if no buyer is found to operate as a Championship ( NOT C 1 ) till the next round of licencing, whereupon if qualified ( win 2013 NRC ) they will be in a position to return to SL, and then put up for sale

They will play at Odsal on a reduced rent until then

The question being, who will relpace them till then?

The Bulls are now effectively a Championship club

But if its a newco then there won't be any debts to repay will there? Why would they have to pay off expunged old debts to play in SL but not in the championship?

Geniune question, goes over my head much of this. Could, in theory, Guilfoyle reject the bid as not a good enough deal for creditors? Isn't, along with trying to the best deal for the club as a going concern, getting the best deal for the clubs creditors part of his remit? If the plan is for a newco and thus wiping the debts then is there a chance this could happen? Could he as the adminisrator give preferred bidder status to someone else?

Just on this marginally interesting front, SLE used to own a batch of shares in Hull FC - redeemable, convertable Ordinary shares which had no voting or dividend rights.

The 2003 Leeds accounts tell us that, "the investment relates to the purchase of £250,000 worth of shares in Hull RLFC by Super League Europe Limited (SLE). SLE holds these shares as the authorised agent on behalf of the twelve clubs who participated in the 1999 Super League season. "

i.e. SLE put some initial capital into Gateshead to get the club up and running. Somewhat different to the case of the Bullies, but a precedent of sorts for the other clubs having a stake in another member club. (The 2002 Hull Annual Return also shows a tasty batch of Hull FC shares owned by a Mr G Hetherington but that's another matter entirely).

Not from me.

I hope you survive as a SL club and not just a SL owned club! The fans and staff are a credit to Rugby League.

I suspect what is going on here is that the RFL through its proxy SL Europe is looking to protect its investment; Odsal and the integrity of the league structure. They are hoping that someone will come along witha an offer in the close season that will allow Bradford to continue, hopefull in Super League.

Anyway, good luck guys and gals.

Er, Leeds. Obviously.

In terms of our owners, I can't envisage a scenario where SLE would want to own a club playing in another competition.

I realise we can't be supported indefinitely, but I am more confident of our SL future today than at any time previously.