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| Quote ="thepimp007"Any source?'"
Definatley Reggae Reggae.
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The full reply from Bradford Bulls.
Hello again, a few days ago Andrew Bennett said he would send me a full reply to my queries about our club..
That reply has now come. He at no point asked for anything to be in confidence, so I’m happy to share his thoughts with you.
They do make interesting reading, and his thoughts on Mr Caisley show that any proposed board change would lead to Bennett leaving.
Email below, what do you all think?
Hi Tony,
Many thanks for your communication.
Humble and gratitude definitely the way forward.
I am a very serious proponent of fan involvement. If it were up to me I would propose a rights issue with immediate effect. But, the problem is other shareholders and dilution of their shares. We would have to get a resolution passed with over 75% of shareholders, which may prove to be a bridge too far. In the meantime we have agreed to have regular meetings with Bullbuilder and the last one, over 3 hours was very open, honest and we thought productive. We need to hold more regular fans forums (more than 2 per annum) and possibly have set, specific topics for each one rather than trying to discuss and cram in the whole shooting match at one event.
I am always the optimist Tony, but this will not be easy. My very profound concern will be that Mr Caisley and his “Survival Package” which is currently one of only a limited number of options, will consist of a review of the business with the foregone outcome that it needs to go into administration. And, this would be desperate because of several issues. The RFL may not grant newco the licence, there is a contract with the RFL that if the ground is ever re developed or sold, that they must provide us with a stadium of the right standard with a minimum capacity of 18,000 and this will go out of the window. Caisley had his run in with the RFL over the Harris affair and may not be an individual “fit for purpose” to run a rugby club under RFL rules.
If Mr Caisley can manage to do a “Pre-Pack” buy back out of admin he would become sole shareholder and have way too much power. Lots of issues Tony.
I’ve worked for this Club for 3 years, on average 4/5 days per week, the first 18 months commuting from Bath; purely for the love of the Club (no income or expenses - not a penny!). I’ve been a Director now for 2 years and take it from me as a business man who owned, then sold a £60,000,000 company on a full listing and thus ran a public company, this business was in a right mess and we have performed miracles to keep it going so long. To have in place a plan for this season then have £500,000 of working capital pulled out like the rug from under your feet, without notice and in such a short space of time proved to be the last straw. Those are the excuses and they are valid.
The sad thing about it all, when you take into account our dreadful injury situation, we have just started to show a glimmer of light on the playing field! Glass half full!
Many thanks again for your commitment and support Tony and if you see me around after the game come up and say hello.
Kind regards,
Andrew
tonybates.tumblr.com/
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The full reply from Bradford Bulls.
Hello again, a few days ago Andrew Bennett said he would send me a full reply to my queries about our club..
That reply has now come. He at no point asked for anything to be in confidence, so I’m happy to share his thoughts with you.
They do make interesting reading, and his thoughts on Mr Caisley show that any proposed board change would lead to Bennett leaving.
Email below, what do you all think?
Hi Tony,
Many thanks for your communication.
Humble and gratitude definitely the way forward.
I am a very serious proponent of fan involvement. If it were up to me I would propose a rights issue with immediate effect. But, the problem is other shareholders and dilution of their shares. We would have to get a resolution passed with over 75% of shareholders, which may prove to be a bridge too far. In the meantime we have agreed to have regular meetings with Bullbuilder and the last one, over 3 hours was very open, honest and we thought productive. We need to hold more regular fans forums (more than 2 per annum) and possibly have set, specific topics for each one rather than trying to discuss and cram in the whole shooting match at one event.
I am always the optimist Tony, but this will not be easy. My very profound concern will be that Mr Caisley and his “Survival Package” which is currently one of only a limited number of options, will consist of a review of the business with the foregone outcome that it needs to go into administration. And, this would be desperate because of several issues. The RFL may not grant newco the licence, there is a contract with the RFL that if the ground is ever re developed or sold, that they must provide us with a stadium of the right standard with a minimum capacity of 18,000 and this will go out of the window. Caisley had his run in with the RFL over the Harris affair and may not be an individual “fit for purpose” to run a rugby club under RFL rules.
If Mr Caisley can manage to do a “Pre-Pack” buy back out of admin he would become sole shareholder and have way too much power. Lots of issues Tony.
I’ve worked for this Club for 3 years, on average 4/5 days per week, the first 18 months commuting from Bath; purely for the love of the Club (no income or expenses - not a penny!). I’ve been a Director now for 2 years and take it from me as a business man who owned, then sold a £60,000,000 company on a full listing and thus ran a public company, this business was in a right mess and we have performed miracles to keep it going so long. To have in place a plan for this season then have £500,000 of working capital pulled out like the rug from under your feet, without notice and in such a short space of time proved to be the last straw. Those are the excuses and they are valid.
The sad thing about it all, when you take into account our dreadful injury situation, we have just started to show a glimmer of light on the playing field! Glass half full!
Many thanks again for your commitment and support Tony and if you see me around after the game come up and say hello.
Kind regards,
Andrew
tonybates.tumblr.com/
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| Tony.....Michael
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| Quote ="ex Bull Dog"Tony.....Michael
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It's not mine pal, I found it on a Bulls Banter on facebook.
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| Quote ="Bulls4Champs"It's not mine pal, I found it on a Bulls Banter on facebook.'"
Ah lol
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| It all makes sense, tbh. Nothing in there really I have not been saying for a while now.
Wouldn't be a rights issue though, would be a new issue.
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| What is a pre pack? And would the RFL have to buy us a new stadia if they sold Odsal? Why would that go out of the window, couldn't it be re-negotiated before any administration to still stand?
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| CC may not like the idea of gambling with administration. At the moment he is the largest shareholder with a majority consortium. He may end up with nothing if an administrator prefers someone else's bid if it came to that.
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| Quote ="Bulls4Champs"What is a pre pack? And would the RFL have to buy us a new stadia if they sold Odsal? Why would that go out of the window, couldn't it be re-negotiated before any administration to still stand?'"
Pre-pack administration. Owner/s (it usually is, although can be managers) of a business put it into administration, with a deal already done to buy the assets off the appointed administrator (with whom they have usually been working beforehand) pretty well overnight. Before anyone else has a chance to do anything much. Usual result is that they get the assets cheap free of any liabilities, while the creditors usually get little or anything. Big saving on administration costs, and least disruption to operations, are cited as reasons.
Personally, I detest the bloody things and would cheerfully outlaw them, tbh.
It would seem the writer of the piece shares my assumption as to what Caisley would probably do.
RFL's lease with the Bulls requires that they provide a replacement stadium should they sell or otherwise move the Bulls out of Odsal. That agreement is with Bradford Bulls Holdings Ltd, which company would cease to exist following administration. Newco would be a separate legal entity, and - as I have warned on here for ages - the RFL would not be bound by any previous contract with the Bulls. It could enter into a new contract with Newco if it so chose - but would be under no obligation to. For example, it could invite Wakey to move in...
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| But realistically thats a fairly easy obstacle to overcome isnt it. Just ask prior to going into administration, if the RFL are happy to sign a similar lease with the new company with similar safeguards (there is no real reason you would expect they wouldnt be happy with doing so) and everything is hunky dory. Or if the RFL arent happy then you dont go into administration or move to VP and the RFL are left with an expensive asset which is pretty much useless to them
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| Quote ="Paul124897"Not technically true. Thomas Cook are relatively safe despite the ongoing media circus going on around them.'"
Correct. A lot of it is media hysteria.
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| Tony is Silsdenbull btw, the squad thread guy
Surely even CC can see that if he were to put the club into administration, after all we as the fans (and the RL community in general) have done to keep it from precisely such a fate, then it would make him pretty much the most detested man in the whole of RL? Or does he not care about that?
You have to remember that however sincere that email might be, it's still only Andrew's side of the story and not completely factual.
Let's just wait and see what happens, we've done our part now.
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| If the pledge money pays the urgent debts, what other significant existing debts are there? What would be gained by Administration?
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| The other thing that people keen for admin are overlooking us that any new Phoenix company would be under no obligation to honour season tickets. Maybe not a massive issue for bulk of supporters but would hit those who bought into longterm ticket offers last year hard. And I'd suggest most of those would be hardcore supporters. Think a cornerstone of caisleys business plan is a immediate cash injection from people buying half season tickets or paying on gate for the rest off the year.
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| Quote ="Cibaman"If the pledge money pays the urgent debts, what other significant existing debts are there? What would be gained by Administration?'"
In financial terms? Release from obligations for the future - e.g. the liability to repay the council the Odsal settlement on a sliding scale up to 2019; most of the image rights tax. The big VAT bill due end of this month; the April PAYE due latest 22/5, and the Class 1A NIC bill due 7/7 (could be big); player contracts for players you no longer want (subject to what the RFL might rule); any other contingent liabilities from the past that have not yet crystalised; liability to repay sponsors if any circumstances in the agreements are triggered. And, of course, the multi-year season tickets (even if they honoured the current year ones).
Bet that lot tots up top a fair bit, quite apart from normal trade creditors (such as they are, given the club's credit rating will be the wrong side of zero right now).
On top of that, and just as importantly, Caisley gets to dump all the other shareholders, so he and his cabal have complete control of Newco. Not much chance of meaningful supporter representation then?
The downside for Caisley is if he does do that, and does not compensate those fans who have lost out, he is likely to become the most loathed and despised man in Yorkshire. Even HE cannot be so obsessed as to risk that?
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| The other thing would be the tie to odsal. Sure I can think of a couple of people with a reason to see us more elsewhere.
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| Quote ="mat"Think a cornerstone of caisleys business plan is a immediate cash injection from people buying half season tickets or paying on gate for the rest off the year.'"
I guess that can only be conjecture, and I really can't see him thinking that, surely? Maybe if he said would honour the season tickets of those who had paid a pledge it could soften the blow for some, but IMO that approach would be commercial suicide.
If nevertheless such an event WAS to come to pass, I can assure you he would not receive a single penny form me.
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| And, don't forget, this rumour is another thing to undermine the pledge and collecting the monies in. Co-incidence? If it was to be deliberate, how would fans feel about being used as cannon-fodder? And if it is co-incidence, its another piece of very unfortunate timing.
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| Quote ="Nothus"Tony is Silsdenbull btw, the squad thread guy
Surely even CC can see that if he were to put the club into administration, after all we as the fans (and the RL community in general) have done to keep it from precisely such a fate, then it would make him pretty much the most detested man in the whole of RL? Or does he not care about that?
You have to remember that however sincere that email might be, it's still only Andrew's side of the story and not completely factual.
Let's just wait and see what happens, we've done our part now.'"
Thats why i was confused, easily done early doors on a friday evening
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| Like most on here I'm not the greatest Caisley fan. Is it guess work that if he gets control Admin is his plan.
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| Quote ="Thackley Bulls"Like most on here I'm not the greatest Caisley fan. Is it guess work that if he gets control Admin is his plan.'"
It can only be that, other than for those in the know in his inner circle. Bennett clearly thinks so from his letter (taking it at face value). From discussions with them, I have every reason to believe that the BoD will be much better placed than most to form an objective opinion.
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| If they use admin for the debts if other options are available its the last time I'm helping the BoD for numerous reasons.
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| Quote ="Adeybull"It can only be that, other than for those in the know in his inner circle. Bennett clearly thinks so from his letter (taking it at face value). From discussions with them, I have every reason to believe that the BoD will be much better placed than most to form an objective opinion.'"
Well they would say that anyone in there position would.
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| This may be a stupid question but I'll ask it anyway...
Doesn't administration mean a points deduction, undoing all the good work on the field this year? If this is the case, surely this would mean no play offs again this year, a reason stated by Mr Hood as something that hasn't helped financially.
I'm feeling increasingly uneasy at the thought of Caisley returning, and also that it seems inevitable.
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| Quote ="redeverready"Well they would say that anyone in there position would.'"
As always, though, it depends on whether it is just opinion or is backed up by specifics.
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