We know, we've seen him play

Haha. I understand the game perfectly after playing and watching it for over 20 years.

The odd aggressive tackle hasn't made the difference between winning and losing against us. He's made very few breaks, offloads, tackle busts, try assists or tries.

As I said, the odd big hit is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Reckon you'll be getting a few games next year?

I know you do Pete and you're always a knowledgeable and reasoned poster, which is why I was surprised at your post which came across as anything but! If that's your genuine opinion then fine but I would have to say I've never seen you further off the ball with an opinion. MM is our most influential player after SOL and all opinion outside of one-eyed fans (which I'll happily consign to the garbage where it belongs) suggests he is a highly regarded player. Having said all that you are, of course, entitled to your opinion...even if it's a wrong one!



Just as an aside; if you genuinely think Higham offers more than McIlorum then you're seriously off the ball on this one! He's not even first choice for a Wire side that has felt the need to go out and buy, rather than trust to Higham and a youngster. Nowhere near the England squad and at best an impact hooker who can scoot at a tiring defense. No disrespect to MH who I like as a man and player but would Saints be happy to run with him as first choice hooker? I think we both know the answer to that....

You said with the ball OR his tough defence. I can see to some extent what you say about his ability with the ball but he sets the tone with intensity and monstrous defence for Wigan. The drop in intensity when he goes off the field is very noticeable.

Of course McIlorum will play, then everyone will think Saints were amazed to see him radlinski-style.

Thankfully for McIlorum he's not up against a team or coach that revel in reckless and underhand play or he might have to worry about being blinded. I suppose the best thing about playing for Wigan is you don't have to put up with the same nonsense your own coach demands.

Of course Wigan get it back! I have seen many teams try to mix it with Wigan, but it only spurs them on! I would go as far to say some teams are scared to mix it with them due to fear of angering the beast.

Like I said, he's very important to how Wigan play but IMHO he's not a great player.

Thanks for the kind words



However, I stick my what I say. I just feel he offers nothing with the ball at all. I understand he's a big player for Wigan as he does exactly what Wane wants to the letter. He puts players off their game.

I do think Higham is a better player, I also believe Clark has been brought into Warrington to play with Micky Higham and not replace him.

I would much rather play Wigan without McIlorum than with him. I don't think he's the most skilful of hookers, but he's really important to Wigan as a leader in terms of aggression and confrontation. I'll be amazed if he doesn't play on Saturday; I suspect Wigan will do everything in their power to get him out there.

Exactly my thoughts

In terms of rugby ability, MM is average at best.

However, in terms of getting in your face, smashing you hard in the tackle and forcing errors, MM is invaluable to Wigan. It's their gameplan to get off the line quick, win the collision and dominate the tackle; these all play to his strengths and that's why he's so important to their team, he leads the line. Put him in our team for instance and he'd be far less important to us.

In terms of technical ability, Sam Powell is a better hooker but he doesn't have that aggressiveness and tenacity that MM brings to the team.

He said he will be playing so there is no need to speculate. There is no way he will miss this game.

MM reminds me of Hooper, who used to play for us. He wasn't the classiest player I've seen but the opposition (especially the players kicking on the 5th) would have hated playing against him.

I think you would have to go way back to find a similar equivalent, probably Harry Pinner who likes the odd confrontation and punch when the ref is looking elsewhere.

I agree fully with your opening paragraph but I can't agree with you about Sam Powell. He is a halfback filling in at hooker and 'technically' isn't as sound in the position as McIlorum. MM is far better distributing from dummy half and makes better decisions with ball in hand from that position at the minute. He's actually quite a clever kicker when he gets the chance as well. His game is based around that devastating defence but his attack is far better then a lot of Saints fans are giving him credit for.

Happy to admit I could be wrong on Powell, I obviously see him far less than Wigan fans. Just whenever I've seen him his distribution has been pretty sharp and he hasn't really made many errors in that department.

It's pretty sluggish in comparison to MM. I like Powell and think next year will be his real breakthrough but in the six position. He's a decent back up option at hooker but no more.

I'd actually be tempted to leave Powell out on Saturday and go with an extra forward but MM's injury may have put paid to that.

I will help you along C= Champions , D= Double winners, E=Envy and F = Five times in a row

Followed by

G = Goons

H = Halfwits

I = Inbreds

Don't think you can have C + D, this has already been allocated C = CANNONBALL D= DIRTY PLAY

If "Mickey Mac" has got a broken face it won't be too hard to get under his skin, niggle him and get him to do something stupid and concede a few penalties.

Get in his face, so to speak, and wind him up.

We would be stupid not to play on it. Lean on it when he's on the floor, "accidentally" stick a had in there in scrums, whatever it takes.

Wigan have proved time and time again that they simply don't care about player welfare when it comes to their opposition, why should we be any different on Saturday?

What I don't understand is that if McIlorum is such a limited player then why the need to even bother?

FWIW I think Roby is twice the player. I posted on here after Good Friday that you were all over reacting to the defeat and that Saints would have a good season. I was right. Brown has proved to be a good coach and has got the best out of the resources available, surely the test of any coach. Wane does the same.

It promises to be a cracker on Saturday, and I can't wait. I'm confident about Wigan's chances but no way am I underestimating Saints.

It's not about MM being a limited player it's about his ability to lose it.

If MM was the same player, but say Charnley had the ability to lose it, then no one would be suggesting annoying MM. It's not the player we are interested in winding up, it's the penalty and possible sending off or sin binning that we are interested in as any team down to 12 men or constantly being marched up the pitch is going to struggle more.

Personally I just don't think we have the brains to niggle it out of him. A lad going toe to toe will end up getting sent off. Someone like LMS will just get penalized for ball stealing. To niggle a player into being unprofessional, you don't need a bruiser, you need brains. And that's the one thing we lack on the pitch, someone who will go out there, find a psychological weakness and take a punch for his efforts without retaliating in the hope of taking them down a man.

Was it Murphy who did it in the CC years ago.

You have to be tough as you are going to get lamped, but I don't think we have it in our armoury. Should Wigan fall behind then that is more likely to push MM to push his limits far more than any gameplay we could muster up ourselves.

Point being it's not about MM it's about a player with a track record for being a liability to the team when he goes to far. If he can keep it in check then all the niggling in the world will do nothing. I certainly would not advocate sacrificing a player to go and lamp him to take him out of the game as that would weaken ourselves more than Wigan, given his limited effect.



If we had a clever player it maybe a ploy worth doing, but as we don't just play to our strengths which at the moment is tackling.

Cut the penalties and dropped ball and Wigan will have to put on some attacking flair to break us down outwide.