I was more thinking trophyless for 6 years...

Yes, we've been unlucky with injuries - but we've left ourselves horribly exposed by only having one out and out halfback in the entire squad.

As I've said before, the strategy should have been to have a back-up half playing in the Academy. He'd obviously be a step down from Walsh, but would have experience of leading a team round the park. The ridiculous scrapping of the u-21's really blocks development of young players (and we - as in British RL - will reap the seeds of that in years to come), but other teams seem to manage to have reserve halfbacks who can do a job.

We had Walsh, Lance, Wheeler and Lomax goinmg into the year to cover the halves.

Walsh and Lomax are out for the season, the club's faith in Wheeler has proven misplaced and Lance is rubbish.

Without a trophy for 6 years perhaps, we may be a week away from one which is closer than we were last year. A few sensible signings and we'll be stronger again.

There's no point extrapolating the last six years and saying last night was the culmination - this season has been a step forward in repairing the squad, next year should be a further step.

Whilst these are all valid points, the lack of half backs wasn't really the reason for our defeat last night.

We completely got owned up the middle, the lack of commitment was alamring as was our attitude, and this has happened this season when Jonny Lomax, Jon Wilkin & Luke Walsh have been in the team.

That is the more worrying aspect than simply lacking in creativity.

I can't recall a collective unit of Saints players making so many basic errors with ball in hand, poor defensive reads and generally playing so dumb. It was horrendous to watch from start to finish.

I think if you take the key pivots out of any top team they are going to struggle, especially against wire last night ,who for me, played the best they have all year. Take Sinfield/Maguire out of Leeds and O'Loughlin/Smith out Wigan and they would struggle to. Im very confident you wont play anywhere near as badly as last night in the play off games and still have a decent shot at getting to OT, depending on your run in. Leeds and Wigan look the two favourites for me though. Warrington are still missing Briers, our attacking structure and ball control at times is worse than amateur.

Based on some recent top class loses?

Leeds were without mcguire and burrow (and a man down) last week and still did OK. Wigan had numerous key players out at various point this season and have done OK. Generally that's because theres depth to those teams. You take sinfield and mcguire out and leeds would still have dangerous playmakers and leaders, ditto for wigan's equivalents. Saints have gone into this season with only one out and out halfback, it was an accident waiting to happen.

Irrelevant. Wigan lost 7 of 9 league games before last seasons playoffs. Judge it on experience and how many key players are fit rather than a tit for tat who beat who in recent league games.

Not writing Wigan off but they had Sam Tomkins and Pat Richards last season who contributed massively to their points.

They don't have that same spark as last season, although clearly when they get their structures right, they are tough to beat.

Bad bad day at the office , poor team , only good thing we got going for us is warrington are a poor team with halfs

Not read the thread but I agree with the title of the thread. We was bad and I was totally embarrassed.

If that's the sort of showing this team puts in when a cup is on offer then I'm glad we won't make old Trafford as it would be a record score.

I'm not going to bag tommy as he's been good nearly every week for past two seasons and that's the worst he's ever played so it's not right IMO to bag him off and I put that down to his bad night at the office.

McDonall is a waste of space, he's dead with the ball and surely we can't offer him a deal.

Jordan Turner was woeful. He can't play that role, it's so predicable what he's going to do. He's not playing what he sees, he's playing what he's been doing on the training field and just going thru that procedure. His passing was woeful. He's not good enough at centre never mind the ball playing role.

Amor been shocking for few weeks now, he doesn't look right to me, he's going down to easy.

I like Manu but IMO he's shot and I wouldn't offer him a one year deal, never mind a two. He looked off the pace last night apart from his try which he took very well.

I'd like to see Thompson brought back into the 17. He's been very unlucky not to be playing and IMO should play every week now.

If that's the "only good thing" you've "got going for you" then I really despair Barry...what a top post

I don't think we have improved at all, except that when Walsh is on the pitch we can play some glorious rugby league and our wingers actually get some ball.

So we haven't improved at all, except for a signing that improved us? Interesting.

Fully agree, I can accept the defeat with the missing players or when the opposition is the better team but not this lack of commitment or attitude to the red vee shirt.

Saddened and myself last season and early this season and probably some older fans where saying this current team is an Alien one and very un saints like, Potter and Simmons lost the heartbeat of the club and Brown has to retort with laid back excuses.

This current Jeckyll and Hyde team is baffling, mentally very weak and not willing to physically adjust when the going gets tough.

I would be tempted to throw some young forwards back into the team. I can understand when Manu, Amor and others came back the young lads slipped down the pecking order. It's natural. But the young lads whilst not amazing going forwards, would have not been suckered in so many times like last night.

But who do you drop???

Everyone will have their favourite. LMS who has hit form. Mose who can be a wrecking ball when he's not a pudding. Amor possibly our best prop. Walmsley who makes great average gains.

For me I would drop Laffranchi. He does not seem to have added to the squad since coming back. I thought he would add some steal to the defense but actually it could be anyone there. I would also be tempted to drop one of Manu or Sia. Again both very good, but something seems not to be right.

I would not chop and change too much so maybe 2 forwards and let the backs try and recover some of their embarrassment. But doing nothing would indicate that it is acceptable if you are a big name to underperform and that is one thing we need to learn from Wigan. It's the performance not the name that matters when it comes to the big games.

You may have noticed that the one signing who improved us isn't playing. Brown has had two seasons with the rest of them but they still don't look any better than they did last season. And that includes the games where we have been atrocious in spite of Walsh playing.

LOL.

I love such insightful analysis.

Who do we drop you ask. Well based on form, any of the forwards could be dropped. The last two weeks they have been fisted.

I wouldn't pick laffranchi again. He's not earned a spot, he offers nothing and he's not here next year.

Yes that was my badly hidden agenda; but I still stick to my opinion; Wheeler should have played.
Hi Ho was awful last season and part of this and impressed no one, but we gave him other (several) chances.

This "new" system that NB has put in place seems to be play with one HB and hope the forwards will blast their way through. Pure genius.

It could have been a whole lot worse. They have never really nailed us! like 80 0 for example. A small club who have had a bit of glory with low class fans.

you are really a hard lot to please..2pts clear with 1 game left..hit hard by injuries no half backs,many a club would be only to pleased to swap with you...go on the leeds board and read there bilge..you`ll find life aint to bad

It's the hope that kills you ...

But we knew before a ball was kicked this season that Lance wasn't a SL-class halfback, Wheeler was made of biscuit, and Lomax was one-dimensional at halfback. Regardless of injuries, we were going into the season ill-prepared.

Why no back-up? We've allegedly had room within the Cap all season. But even discounting bringing someone in, why isn't Brown grooming a halfback from the Academy? Why did Charnock (who can actually kick in open play) make his debut two seasons ago and hasn't had a sniff since, despite many who watch the Academy telling me he could do a job? Why persist in playing non-half backs from the first team squad at halfback, when they aren't up to it?

It wasn't the injuries that dropped the ball and missed tackles.

I really disagree with the comment about Lance. Granted, he's much more effective alongside a quality scrum half, but Lance is a quality player who gets slated on here. Only last week he was the match winner against Leeds.