I disagree. I disagree firstly because how staff are treated is never a red herring but secondly, I am simply following through my own initial point which rested on staff AND paying customers.


Exactly, which is why the staff issue is not a red herring. McManus has spoken of Saints being a business. There are two sides to that coin. If Saints can charge a fiver for putting your birthday wishes on the scoreboard then they can also ensure the health and safety requirements are met in relation to their customers AND their staff. In addition there is also the point that any business not providing the most customer-friendly service will ultimately pay the price, as you suggest.

I thi k it's £10 for your name on scoreboard when I enquiried about it, which I told them to go and get stuffed.

Doubled in price since my friend arranged it in that case. She organised it about two months ago.

They may have dropped the price then. I know for fact it was £10 when we played Catalan at home.

I paid for a hospitality package for 8 people for someone's birthday which wasn't cheap (really good tho) and while I booked I asked them to put the name on scoreboard and she told me its a extra £10. I told her I've just spent a fortune and couldn't they do it free of charge and they says no.

I told them to get stuffed, I'm not paying £10 for that!!!!

Surely cladding won't make a blind bit of difference to the temperature in the concession stands?

We've been told it's 50% maximum due to the construction of the stadium so while it may stop some of the rain coming in, it won't stop wind or warm the place up.

If it protects staff from the wind then it will, even if it cuts down the impact of it rather than obliterates it completely. Sometimes that wind has been biting. Obviously, though, a proper wall would have been better. A proper wall is, of course, what most of us thought we were going to get!

It's cladding with thermals



But it should provide some protection from the wind in the stadium, I think the wind and the rain effects different areas.

The rain has not bothered me in the seating sections that seams to be in the areas outside where it pools the worst, but the wind does blow through the stadium something cronic. You maybe right and it may not effect the climate inside at all, but if the club said such then that would be the end of it, put up or shut up.

You didn't look at the plans properly then? They just had a wooden fence round the outside, not even the brick wall we have.



I can understand it stopping some of the rain coming in (and the problems with wet concourses currently), but I've not noticed wind being a major problem within the concourses, I've only been in the North Stand myself though.

Usual pacifists. McClennan would have a haircut for the rest of his days to save the trouble of telling his hairdresser he wanted to change it 15 years ago.



The questions are thus:-

1) If you were to receive a new ground in 2012 would you expect it to be fully protected from the elements in both your seats and on the concourse? If not, why not?

2) If your chairman said that you would be getting said cladding six weeks after fans expressed reservations then would you expect it a) to happen or b) when it doesn't happen, get an explanation why/ If not, why not?

There are too many of our supporters who are too happy to settle for second best. They think that being runners-up is acceptable and they think that accepting a ground that has been shockingly designed is acceptable on the basis that is better than Mount Pleasant. Well it isn't. The designers have ballsed up and that is a cast iron fact. If you want to settle for a shoddily designed affair without question after all these years then that says everything about your weak personalities.

NO - That is a cast iron OPINION.

Anyone would think you actually contributed to paying for the building of the stadium and therefore your OPINION has some weight. And before you do, PLEASE don't spout that you've bought a 5 year season ticket. That does nothing but give you admission to games, nothing more noithing less and at a price lower than it would be if you bought either matches one by one or seasons.

Why don't you just come out and say what you mean DD?

Cladding money on Willie Manu me thinks

Everyone who has bought tickets has contributed to the stadium, without them there would be no club and no stadium.

I like the stadium, but I do agree with a lot of what DD says. The design would be fantastic for a stadium in a hot sunny country, but alas, England is not one of them. We don't have enough games in a hot sunny climate to justify not having cladding round the back of the stands to protect those inside from the elements that are prevalent, such as rain. The fact that it rains in on those at the ends and backs of the stands is a basic design error.

No they haven't - the monies from season ticket sales would not be diverted into capital expenditure. It would be used as part of their ongoing cash flow. Capital projects are funded totally differently.

Who will have put up capital funding with no money coming into the club, with the money coming into the club being almost solely due to fans?

The sky monies, sponsorship, corporate revenue, shareholders funds. Investors may also provide funding on the basis of future returns. The value of income from season ticket sales although significantly higher than previous years would do nothing to fund a £30m investment. It may pay some debt repayments but Mr McManus has already stated we are debt free!

Don't suppose you fancy answering the questions that I asked do you?

Sky monies only come in because fans watch it on tv. Sponsors only buy advertising because fans see that advertising. Investors invest either for profit, or because they are fans.

Without fans, professional sport is nothing.

Which, in all honesty, is nothing to do with design flaws in the stadium.

Agreed - all I am arguing is that we as supporters have not actually paid anything towards the building of the stadium and whilst it may not be to yours or DD or some of the others on here liking you actually havent actually put any of the money up so have little recouse if it doesnt fit your utopian dream. And from where I sit its a damn site better than we have ever had and I am yet to get wet (I sit in the North Stand Block C).

So do I and I've also yet to get wet, however I know people in the West Stand who have got wet (and I'm not talking about people sat/stood at the front where you'd expect to get wet depending on the direction of wind). Where they are stood, it isn't a damn sight better than KR, they didn't get wet at KR when stood under the roof.

However, people are paying customers and are then entitled to make comment, and I wouldn't call it a utopian dream to have a ground where you didn't get wet.

Get out the wrong side of bed today did we sir?

Supporters do have one recouse and those investors, sponsors, sky and shareholders would be less than happy with club management if supporters took the option of not being customers in the following years.

In the end this debated will be solved by simple footfall. If footfall next year stays the same then we can assume that those anti-cladding are correct and it makes little difference to the paying customer.

If footfall falls away then we can assume those pro-cladding were correct and to have the stadium fully fitted for UK weather would have been a wise option.

The only issue is the risk factor, that we have no idea how big or small this is in terms of fans, and we have no idea if it is a negative experience whether fixing it will have an impact as once bitten twice shy.

First impressions are everything and if the extra 4 thousand season ticket holders are those fans who stayed away from KR because the facilities were not up to scratch, but bought at LP based on an assumption about facilities if those expectations are not met then they may not bother again.

In the end it's about opinion and although your opinion is that the finish looks good and the weather in the UK does not require cladding then that's fair enough, but the counter is also valid as each person will have a different experience based on their own expectations and experiences.

Bump in the hope Mcmanus reads RL Fans

??????

he got out of the wrong side of life fella