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| Quote ="McClennan"You neglect the number of different winners of the Challenge Cup since Super League was created i.e. only two teams have managed to retain the cup in sixteen years, us and Wire.'"
There have been less different teams contest the Challenge Cup Final since Super League than the sixteen years prior to it starting, and only one less winner.
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"There have been less different teams contest the Challenge Cup Final since Super League than the sixteen years prior to it starting, and only one less winner.'"
Yeah but that's been because we've been ace over that time
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| Quote ="McClennan"Yeah but that's been because we've been ace over that time
'"
As I said the "myth" of Super League.
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| Quote ="The Yellow Giraffe"Bloody hell Shakespeare, calm down.
I dont really see the relevance of last week to be honest. Regardless of the fact you defended my post on the Warrington board, I still hate Wigan. As should all Saints fans. And if, as a Wigan fan, you told me that you didn't hate Saints, then I would be more than a tad confused.
Surely you don't expect me to forget 27 years of hate towards Wigan, all because you defended something I said last week? Don't take it so personally!
'"
How did you know my name was Shakespeare? It’s not by the way, it’s Gladys Orwell. I think you would find most Pies don’t hate saints fans, because we, as opposed to you lot in vomit land, know our place in the ranks of the Rugby League worlds aristocracy, and it's[u at the top[/u, and that’s what you lot will never come to terms with. I don’t know if we being champions will be good for SL, I’m sure no one else away from Wigan would like it, but we’re used to that. It would just add a touch of green to your vomit. (No offence meant) 3-0 lol!
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| Quote ="pies-r-us"How did you know my name was Shakespeare? It’s not by the way, it’s Gladys Orwell. I think you would find most Pies don’t hate saints fans, because we, as opposed to you lot in vomit land, know our place in the ranks of the Rugby League worlds aristocracy, and it's[u at the top[/u, and that’s what you lot will never come to terms with. I don’t know if we being champions will be good for SL, I’m sure no one else away from Wigan would like it, but we’re used to that. It would just add a touch of green to your vomit. (No offence meant) 3-0 lol!
'"
I think you'll find I haven't mentioned anything about the fans hating each other. I said I hate Wigan, and I'd expect Wigan fans to hate Saints. I have many friends and family members, even my girlfriend, who are all Wigan fans. I don't hate those people, I just hate what they stand for in terms of the team they "support."
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| Quote ="wakey_saint"Whilst I can see where the OP is coming from and agree that the best team over 27 rounds deserve to be champions, did we see any Wigan fans willing us to be champions as we topped the league in 2005, 2007 & 2008?
The fact that a team could win less games than they lose and be crowned champions is an absolute joke and the system needs to be looked at but everybody knows the playing field before the season kicks off. Regardless of where we finish in the table, if we can get to OT and win on GF night then I wont be giving any sympathy to Wigan as they havent been good enough when it mattered. As harsh as it may seem, its happened to us on far too many occasions for me to care if it happened to somebody else.
Does that mean that the OP felt sorry for Wigan last year because they finished above us, yet we beat them twice in the playoffs and dumped them out to get back to OT? Again, I know I certainly didnt!!'"
Good post.
In 2005, 2007 and 2008 the league was in much stronger than it is today in my opinion. At the time I thought that the Bulls team that won in 2005 was the worst team to ever be Champions. But looking back that team really got a run on and did have to bust a gut to win the league from third. A bit of Wigan thuggery help them out mind you, but you never thought that after that the value of a top two finish had been devalued. You cannot say the same about this year.
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| I do dislike the playoff system as I feel it does undermine a league campaign. Saying that there was a playoff system in the past is a bit out of context. As we also had a mega league 1 division in the past, and not all the teams played each other home and away. Also those you did play twice would depend on where you were in the league.
So a playoff has it's place, but the current system devalues the league to the point where clubs will throw games with little regard to the impact, we've done it in the past other teams do it now.
Whilst the playoffs may decide the honoury title of champions, the playoffs do not provide the life blood of the game. The life blood of the game is money and that comes from fans and advertisers who pay for week in week out RL.
If the clubs continue ever more with the lax attitude towards the league, then how long until fans start to turn away from season tickets and advertisers turn away from league games?
I'm not dogmatic about it, but there should be some difficulty for those who take that approach during the season, at the moment reward is given for too little effort. Imagine a top 3, 4 or top 5 playoffs and then imagine the intensity that teams like Leeds, Catalan, Saints would have to be playing at to be assured of their place.
At the moment 5th looks the best outcome for Saints this year in terms of a run at the playoffs, 4th and 3rd make it more difficult.
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| Quote ="The Yellow Giraffe"I think you'll find I haven't mentioned anything about the fans hating each other. I said I hate Wigan, and I'd expect Wigan fans to hate Saints. I have many friends and family members, even my girlfriend, who are all Wigan fans. I don't hate those people, I just hate what they stand for in terms of the team they "support."'"
Fair enough we all hate or dislike whatever we choose, everyone has a choice, when and when not to raise their voice or hand. I have seen what real hate can do overseas and am now less likely to use it in regards sport , even in banter about something I am very passionate about. Back to RL [ugood luck to the Saints[/u, and if they get to the GF I hope they win [uthis time[/u, as long as it’s not against us!
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| Quote ="pies-r-us" I hope they win [uthis time[/u, as long as it’s not against us!'"
In that case, you firmly belong on the same funny farm as the OP.
A Saints fan hoping Wigan win the GF, and a Wigan fan hoping we win it as long as it's not against them.....what on earth is going on??
I am sorry but you can't be very passionate about supporting either team if you hope that their deadliest rival wins the league. It really makes me angry. If you support Saints, you should hate Wigan, and vice versa. Simple as that.
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| Quote ="Noel Cleal"Good post.
A bit of Wigan thuggery help them out .'"
Your not wrong had Sean Long been fit for the play offs I think we would have won the thing.
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| Quote ="The Yellow Giraffe"In that case, you firmly belong on the same funny farm as the OP.
A Saints fan hoping Wigan win the GF, and a Wigan fan hoping we win it as long as it's not against them.....what on earth is going on??
I am sorry but you can't be very passionate about supporting either team if you hope that their deadliest rival wins the league. It really makes me angry. If you support Saints, you should hate Wigan, and vice versa. Simple as that.'"
It's possible to be both passionate and rational.
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| Quote ="bewareshadows"It's possible to be both passionate and rational.'"
I agree. And there is nothing irrational about my hatred of Wigan.
I'd go as far as saying that any Saints supporter who wants to see Wigan win the Grand Final is not a true supporter. Wigan are our rivals, that isn't optional.
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| I'm glad we didn't have Noel Cleal replace Neville Chamberlain instead of Churchill or we'd all be eating bratwurst and not cumberlands now. That's all I can say.
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| Quote ="on_the_charge"Your not wrong had Sean Long been fit for the play offs I think we would have won the thing.'"
Unfortunately the druggie scum Newton put paid to that
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| Quote ="The Yellow Giraffe"I agree. And there is nothing irrational about my hatred of Wigan.
I'd go as far as saying that any Saints supporter who wants to see Wigan win the Grand Final is not a true supporter. Wigan are our rivals, that isn't optional.'"
My reasoning is neither irrational nor a ticket to the funny farm. Why would I give a flying sh*t who wins the GF if we weren’t involved? So if it were Saints, SO WHAT! I would sooner them than a Yorkshire club. I support my team as passionately as you yours, have no doubt about that, we just think of things in different ways. Some people write things beyond banter (as someone did to you, and to which you took offence, remember) which some would think is just posturing, and that kind of thing is irrational. I know you and some others would call my thoughts barmy, fine, I find yours OTT to say the least, [ubewareshadows[/u has it right, or is he, like me, not a real fan? I think not, I just think some people should just keep RL and life, in prospective.
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| Quote ="The Yellow Giraffe"In that case, you firmly belong on the same funny farm as the OP.'"
Funny Farm? I have not said I like Wigan, I have just said that they deserve to be Champions and the League is in need of "Real" Champions after all that has happened in the last 12 months. Come on, what are the options, I have a health dislike of the Wire Scum so I don't want them to win it. Leeds have had far more success than the ability of their squad warrants and their fans are perhaps the scummiest in the league outside of Humberside. We are hopeless and have no chance so we can count ourselves out.
Catalan are the only team that I like that has a shot at being champions, but even if they do, they have not really looked like champions this year and would not give the league the integrity boost it needs. So it has to be the Pies!!!
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| Quote ="on_the_charge"Your not wrong had Sean Long been fit for the play offs I think we would have won the thing.'"
Don't forget Darren Albert he was also assaulted in that game.
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| Quote ="McClennan"I'm glad we didn't have Noel Cleal replace Neville Chamberlain instead of Churchill or we'd all be eating bratwurst and not cumberlands now. That's all I can say.'"
Neville has been treated harsh by history. He had the countries interests at heart just had a bad PR guy. He was just trying to avoid Churchill’s war that cost this country so much and allowed Germany and the USA economies to overtake ours in the years since. Plus there is nothing wrong with Bratwurst, get yourself down to the Manchester Christmas markets and have one with a nice gluvine this December.
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| Quote ="Noel Cleal"that cost this country so much and allowed Germany and the USA economies to overtake ours in the years since.'" Weren't Germany forced to pay the other european countries monitary compensation following the war?
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| Quote ="Offside Monkey"Weren't Germany forced to pay the other european countries monitary compensation following the war?'"
That was the first world war this resulted in a depression which resulted in the rise of fascism. After the second they were banned from having an army which has saved them huge amounts of money in the time since.
We, on the other hand, were still paying the USA for the weapons they sold us during WWII until about 10 years ago.
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| Quote ="pies-r-us" Why would I give a flying sh*t who wins the GF if we weren’t involved? So if it were Saints, SO WHAT! .'"
This is where we differ. In my opinion, you should give a sh*t if Saints win it. As a Wigan fan you shouldn't ever want to see Saints win a thing and it should hurt seeing them win Grand Finals.
The fact you don't feel this way is what makes me question how much you actually care about or support Wigan.
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| Quote ="Noel Cleal"Funny Farm? I have not said I like Wigan, I have just said that they deserve to be Champions and the League is in need of "Real" Champions after all that has happened in the last 12 months. Come on, what are the options, I have a health dislike of the Wire Scum so I don't want them to win it. Leeds have had far more success than the ability of their squad warrants and their fans are perhaps the scummiest in the league outside of Humberside. We are hopeless and have no chance so we can count ourselves out.
Catalan are the only team that I like that has a shot at being champions, but even if they do, they have not really looked like champions this year and would not give the league the integrity boost it needs. So it has to be the Pies!!!'"
So as a Saints "supporter," the integrity boost to the league,as you call it, is more important than our rivalry with Wigan?? So you'd be happy to see them win it every year so long as they deserve it? What a load of absolute nonsense.
And again, this is what leads me to question just how much of a Saints fan you are. Because in my book, no Saints fan should ever want Wigan to win anything, regardless of much they may or may not deserve it.
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| Quote ="The Yellow Giraffe"This is where we differ. In my opinion, you should give a sh*t if Saints win it. As a Wigan fan you shouldn't ever want to see Saints win a thing and it should hurt seeing them win Grand Finals.
The fact you don't feel this way is what makes me question how much you actually care about or support Wigan.'"
I'm with you on this one to certain degree but don't like the word hate that has been used quite a lot on this particular post.
However, as a Wigan fan who spent the first eight years of his working life employed in St. Helens I understand better than most the rivalry, plus the fact I married a girl from there (I was on educational duty ) so my outlaws in the main are in the main Saints supporters.
The next best thing to a Wigan victory is a Saints loss, and I don't have a problem with Saints fans who think the same but the other way round. I have many good friends whose company I enjoy who have the misfortune to support Saints, and good luck to them, but I love seeing their miserable faces after a defeat.
That's how it should be, as long as the banter is good natured long may it continue.
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"
That's how it should be, as long as the banter is good natured long may it continue.'"
I agree entirely. Yeah I have used the word hate, which you maye see as a bit OTT, but I have only used it in reference to the club, and not the necessarily the people who support the club.
I live in Wigan with my girlfriend who is a Wigan fan, and my family is a 50/50 split of Saints and Wigan fans. I do not hate my girlfriend, or the half of the family that support Wigan. But I do hate Wigan and even if them winning the GF would make my girlfriend very happy, I openly want them to lose. If I told her I wanted Wigan to win, she'd think I'd gone soft, and vice versa.And as you say, that's how it should be.
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| Quote ="Noel Cleal"Neville has been treated harsh by history. He had the countries interests at heart just had a bad PR guy. He was just trying to avoid Churchill’s war that cost this country so much and allowed Germany and the USA economies to overtake ours in the years since. Plus there is nothing wrong with Bratwurst, get yourself down to the Manchester Christmas markets and have one with a nice gluvine this December.'"
It was a joke buddy.
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