No one has ever been as bad as Francis Meli in terms of mistakes made. Nathan Graham cost Bradford a Challenge Cup Final with his inability to catch a rugby ball, but even that pales in comparison to Meli's record of losing us 3 Grand Finals.

Did Sullivan have a major hand in gifting 3 Grand Finals / Cup Finals to the opposition?

There is a big difference though. Meli is playing in our present team and his gaffs have actively helped us to lose not just one GF but a few of them. Sully is no longer playing for Saints and so does it really matter anymore what he did?

What's that got to do with him making numerous gaffes in defence? Are you saying he didn't?

Does it matter? I don't reckon much that's posted on this board matters.

My point was regarding that 15 years ago, a winger's error count was secondary to is attacking ability. Now its not. Hence Sully being remebered a club hero and Meli being blamed by many for losing us whole titles.

Sorry I have to disagree with that. Offiah had swerve and sidestep to go with pace as well as amazing speed from a standing start. He was never really caught out in defence - Tackle or High Ball - and when you look at some of the greats he played against - eg Wally Lewis, Gary Jack,Ettinghausen in Australia 1988 - they would have found out any weakness. He would still score 50 a season now.

Offiah was a phenomenon at his peak at Widnes - the only player I've ever seen that could very literally score from any position or situation from anywhere on the field. I was very glad that he lost a bit of that by the time he went to the Pies. The game has changed immensely as far as wingers are concerned since then but he'd still be a superstar today.

Rugby league rarely produces outstanding wingers these days; the focus seems to be on producing solid/dependable wingers rather than genuinely exciting ones IMO and the game is all the poorer as a result.

I think it's a tragedy that an exciting talent like Penny is basically chucked on the scrap heap because of the frailties in his game. Doesn't really say much about the coaching.

Christ Id give my back teeth for another Offiah,pure exitement.