why did we play like a team not trying to lose in the first half?(Simmons words)Did someone on the pitch decide what tactics to adopt ?Surely they were playing to Simmons instructions?

That was just the point: they weren't. They did the same thing in the first half against Wigan in the second playoff (contrast that first half to the first half against Wigan at the DW, for instance, and you will see what Simmons is getting at).

Yeah, I agree there. First half plans didn't work out as we'd liked so they changed it and it worked well in the opening 20 minutes of the 2nd half. Once those 2 injuries hit though, the disruption caused by them was too much sadly.

Not Royce's fault in my book. Will be for our misery troll Saint from Prestwich though.

Quote ="Carlos Alberto"Yeah, I agree there. First half plans didn't work out as we'd liked so they changed it and it worked well in the opening 20 minutes of the 2nd half. Once those 2 injuries hit though, the disruption caused by them was too much sadly. Not Royce's fault in my book. Will be for our misery troll Saint from Prestwich though.'" [i"We knew Paul Wellens wouldn't get through the game. He did as long as he could but the injury to Michael Shenton really did for us." [/i www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar ... d=10757836 So Wellens went into the game with the injury? Or does he mean Wellens got injured early and carried on as long as he could? How on earth can you go into a Grand Final knowing your full back will have to pull out with injury at some point? If so that is pure stupidity and entirely Royce' fault.

Quote ="Carlos Alberto"Yeah, I agree there. First half plans didn't work out as we'd liked so they changed it and it worked well in the opening 20 minutes of the 2nd half. Once those 2 injuries hit though, the disruption caused by them was too much sadly. Not Royce's fault in my book. Will be for our misery troll Saint from Prestwich though.'" [i"We knew Paul Wellens wouldn't get through the game. He did as long as he could but the injury to Michael Shenton really did for us." [/i www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar ... d=10757836 So Wellens went into the game with the injury? Or does he mean Wellens got injured early and carried on as long as he could? How on earth can you go into a Grand Final knowing your full back will have to pull out with injury at some point? If so that is pure stupidity and entirely Royce' fault.

Quote ="RhinoNeil"[i"We knew Paul Wellens wouldn't get through the game. He did as long as he could but the injury to Michael Shenton really did for us." [/i www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar ... d=10757836 So Wellens went into the game with the injury? Or does he mean Wellens got injured early and carried on as long as he could? How on earth can you go into a Grand Final knowing your full back will have to pull out with injury at some point? If so that is pure stupidity and entirely Royce' fault.'" Wello has been carrying a injury nearly all the second half as the season just as a few of the guys like shenton, foster, roby, Graham but it's pretty normal at this stage of the season.

Quote ="RhinoNeil"[i"We knew Paul Wellens wouldn't get through the game. He did as long as he could but the injury to Michael Shenton really did for us." [/i www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar ... d=10757836 So Wellens went into the game with the injury? Or does he mean Wellens got injured early and carried on as long as he could? How on earth can you go into a Grand Final knowing your full back will have to pull out with injury at some point? If so that is pure stupidity and entirely Royce' fault.'" Wello has been carrying a injury nearly all the second half as the season just as a few of the guys like shenton, foster, roby, Graham but it's pretty normal at this stage of the season.

Quote ="RhinoNeil"[i"We knew Paul Wellens wouldn't get through the game. He did as long as he could but the injury to Michael Shenton really did for us." [/i www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar ... d=10757836 So Wellens went into the game with the injury? Or does he mean Wellens got injured early and carried on as long as he could? How on earth can you go into a Grand Final knowing your full back will have to pull out with injury at some point? If so that is pure stupidity and entirely Royce' fault.'" Nah, coaches have to gamble with big game players who could have injuries in big games. Sometimes it comes up good, like the Ginger Doormat at Murrayfield, others it doesn't work out well. In one off big games, it's a risk you have to take.

Quote ="RhinoNeil"[i"We knew Paul Wellens wouldn't get through the game. He did as long as he could but the injury to Michael Shenton really did for us." [/i www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar ... d=10757836 So Wellens went into the game with the injury? Or does he mean Wellens got injured early and carried on as long as he could? How on earth can you go into a Grand Final knowing your full back will have to pull out with injury at some point? If so that is pure stupidity and entirely Royce' fault.'" Nah, coaches have to gamble with big game players who could have injuries in big games. Sometimes it comes up good, like the Ginger Doormat at Murrayfield, others it doesn't work out well. In one off big games, it's a risk you have to take.

Wello has had the injury for a few weeks and didn't train all week. He was passed fit prior to the match but we got through a lot of defensive work in that first half. By halftime the staff knew Wello wouldn't make it through the match but he went back on because we needed him to. Only when it became impossible for him to continue did he leave the field.

Foster went for a scan on Monday last week. Was he fit? Who knows. Our whole season has been like that.

In a Grand Final, if a player has been passed fit beforehand, he plays. Had we not had so much defensive work in the first half then maybe Wello would have gotten through the match. It's a judgement call. He was our best option at fullback and one of the few who had experience in Grand Finals.

Not sure that's what I said. It's certainly not what Simmons said anyway. He said we were too cautious in the first half which personally I think is a nice way of saying that our forwards didn't man up (which would be a more accurate statement IMO). In the second half we went out with the same attitude as we showed at Widnes against Wigan in the second half (when we were also one try down before halftime) and against Wigan at the DW for the whole match.


That I do agree with. As soon as I saw Meli on the wing I knew we were screwed! (And realised we must have been desperate!)

Jamie has had troublesome knee for a while, shenton has had a wrist injury thus year and so has roby.

I'm pretty sure Leeds went in to the game with knocks as well.

I was pretty shocked at saints moving meli to the wing in a grand final. I bet meli was having flashbacks.

Foster was injured against Wigan. Probably half our team were. We don't know who was carrying what knocks in the GF. But one big difference was that Leeds suffered no injuries during the match and we suffered two, in quick succession and to two of our best defenders. Killer.

Incidentally, an achilles injury isn't a 'knock'.

I don't care about Meli having flashbacks, the whole bloody West Stand was having nightmares!

Why move him there?

To the West Stand? Would have loved to have done that. It would have meant he was safely away from the wing.

For some reason you've failed to answer the question?

On one of your posts today you posted something along the lines of, anyone with half of brain knows he's got to be kept of the wing.

So why did our coach put him on the wing?

I was being facetious (look it up).


I have many talents but mind reading is not one of them. However, it could be that he was running out of bodies and Meli had played on the wing before. It's logical to assume, therefore, that a player with experience on the wing should play on the wing when the winger had to play at fullback. Likewise with Soliola and the centre position. He's played there before. Therefore, it's logical to move him to that spot when the centre was lost to injury. Unfortunately, what Simmons probably didn't realise, was that Meli is capable of spectacular GF brainfarts of the highest order and Soliola having his worst game in months was not going to end with him playing at centre.

Aside from that, of course, they'd been playing and training for their other positions all season and to ask two players to slip back into previous positions in a GF for the most crucial part of the game was a big ask. An unavoidable one, but a big one nonetheless. Meli was never going to rise to that occasion.

In fact I think Scott Moore was defending on that side too wasn't he? So we had Meli (GF liability), Soliola (worst game in months), Moore (liability) and a limping Lomax. That was a tryfest waiting to happen.

Who else could he put there? Wheeler? Soliola? Lomax? If we moved Lomax out there you end up throwing Wheeler in at stand off when he's hardly played. I know Wheeler has quality but is it really in that much abundance that it overcomes the fluidity with which Lomax and Gaskell had combined? Don't you think, prior to the event, we would have lost less in attack by keeping Lomax in the middle on this occasion?

Wheeler could have gone on the wing. Could have put tommy on wing, Gaskell to fullback(he can play there) and wheeler to 6. Lomax could have gone there.

Anyone other than meli! I'd put Graham there before meli.

Sure, yes. Stick Gaskell at fullback and who would play 6? Wilkin? So we lose another forward, bearing in mind we had lost one forward already because he was covering centre. So put Meli in at right centre (when he has been playing left centre all season) and Lomax on the wing when he has been playing halfback all season? We confuse the fook out of Meli (not hard) and take away a strike threat in Lomax (such as it was). Can't see it myself. The fact that Meli is useless is not Simmons' fault. He did the best he could, and the most logical thing he could, with the resources he had available.

I wasn't saying who i thought should have gone to the wing, i was answering the question of what options Royce had.

Lucky Royce came up with the better idea of putting serial grand final cock up king meli on the wing. It paid off.

Oh shut the feck up Pete.

Chill out out di, you know I'm messing with you.

You should know me by now, I'm not being serious.

Do you still love me?

I was only messing with her as I know she' got soft spot for Royce.



I hope she can forgive me.