So when we don't make the top four this year and don't even have our yearly loss at old Trafford, we can just use the excuse that KC retired.

Mate Listen. You ain't winning here - give it up before you either have a coronary or get to a point where your 'arguments' appear even less credible than they have done so far. People are not stupid, they see what they see and many, like me, see a side under-performing so badly that it's actually quite difficult to see past the coach. Life's about accountability - he's accountable for what turns out at the weekends and by the looks of things he'll be having to face that accountability very soon if things don't improve. I take no pleasure in that but as sure as God made green apples it will happen because patience is a limited commodity amongst Chairmen in sport.

I'm now done with this particular debate. Over and out.

We got to the Grand Final indeed. But we didn't win it, on either occasion he got us there, just as on the previous two occasions we didn't win it. So nothing extraordinary occurred at the Grand Finals. And we didn't get to the CC final on either occasion he was in charge either, the first of which only Longy was injured.


Oh I am sorry, but I will! Not only will I have the joy of seeing Saints play some great rugby league and possibly actually WIN a Grand Final again but I will also have the opportunity to go on a copy and paste fest! After all the flak I've taken on here that will make for an extra slice of fun!

I see very few people criticising our coach. Any intelligent person will know that five weeks is nothing. It's just that you and a few other people showing a less than intelligent approach are looking at Wigan and thinking 'why can't we have that?'. Well, you can't. So suck it up.

I'm enjoying myself, so you don't need to worry about my heart. It's in great order. Loving every minute of this!

Before last seasons grand final, I asked saintsfan if we win will she admit potter done great job ( or words to that effect), which she replied that a win would be down to the players and not the coach!

Yet when we lose it's down to potter, that's why she's finding it hard to admit that royce is struggling to get what potter got out of the players.

So you would on consider someone a good coach if they win the double? you are nuts chick!

No. I didn't say that. It was you who was claiming Potter was wonderful. I was simply giving examples of how he didn't achieve what we had achieved previously. In fact, he took us backward because we became fat and unfit, which left us vulnerable to losing games in the second half.

Where have i said MP was wonderful? I've given a reasoned view, tis you who can only see in black or white

Not as much as this fella going take us we not scored a single point in three first half games

From the five games played this year we've took massive steps backwards!

Our attack has gone very poor, it's predictable, boring, slow and don't look capable of putting any moves on if we have any moves.

Our defence is as poor as I've seen for many years, I feel worried every time a team gets in our 22 meter zone.

Our kicking game is utter rubbish!

We've go no fire in us, no passion and no pride.

Double post

Backwards from what point exactly? Losing the fourth Grand Final on the trot you mean? Just sneaking into second in the last game of the season?


Oh, that just sounds like the comments people were making about our attack last season!


We shipped an average of 20 points a match last season. What's our average for the five games of this season?


And it was last brilliant when, exactly? When Pryce and Eastmond were fit maybe?


We had it in spades at Cardiff and, according to those who went there, in Perpignan too. We even tried a fightback against Warrington, once we'd remembered how to play a game without Cunningham on the pitch.

Well with Simmons we have at least learned how to lose in the first half.

Gives us options in the second, anyway!

Another couple of mins in Catalan and they would of won

And had Andrew Dixon's effort been awarded, [iwe[/i would have won.

Had Foster converted that final try against Wigan, we would have won.

Had the Warrington game been five minutes longer, we would have won.

Had the moon been pink and the rain fallen upwards, we would all have died.

Would haves don't count; final results do.

Plus the fight back against Warrington was more a case of them taking there foot of the gas as tony smith said after the game.

It's just a utter shocking start to a season and I honestly fear what the likes of Wigan, Warrington and giants will do to us at their grounds.

Even with the injury situation at Leeds, I can't see anything other than a heavy defeat.

So those are your measures? Ok. In that case, we took steps backwards under Potter. We didn't get to two CC finals. We shipped more points under Potter than under Anderson. Significantly more in the 2010 season actually. We only just made it to the second spot in 2010; we'd been fighting over the first spot for six years previously.


I have no idea.

Does anyone know or see any reason of having a winger on the bench?

I know Royce said he'll be having a outside back on the bench but did he explain why?

I just don't see the point in having foster on the bench. Last year foster had taken gardners spot on the wing and was playing very well but has now been dropped to the bench.

Yeah, of course it was! And Tony Smith would say that, wouldn't he? We simply came back at them. Had we done that earlier, we could have nicked it just as we have nicked it from them many times before. However, I'm glad they won. We don't have that silly pressure thing going anymore now. They are just another superleague fixture. But it was fun while it lasted!

i went to the Catalan game and dixons try wasn't a try as wellens tackled the player in the air, if people think we played well in that game they are disillusioned as everyone on out coach commented on what an average side we looked

He hasn't chosen a winger on the bench. He has chosen an outside back on the bench and he explained why: it is to cover for injuries and avoid wholesale changes in personnel mid match. It has been a wise move, too. Without Foster on the bench, we would have had to have made changes against Wigan and against the Quins. As it was, because Foster was on the bench, he just slipped in and provided cover.

Its an entire waste of a spot for me, unless its some like wheeler or lomax who can cover the halves as well and spell kyle and or leon, but still i'm not a fan of it

That wasn't what has been reported. We were offside apparently.

Well, your coach had their opinions. I have read differently. I didn't go so I don't know but when I watched the tries I saw well structured tries scored and that is what I was hoping to see.

And it is perfectly possible that in fact we are now just an ordinary side. Ever thought of that?