I wold never carry a HB on the bench, a hooker and 3 forwards or 2 forwards and a utility. he played Sinfield in 2 positions against the best team (imo) in the world. its hard to play in 1. SM as got it all wrong imo.

I'd go with McIlorum on the bench in place of Widdop, who I agree is viewed favourably by many simply because he's from the NRL. Showed nothing when he came on but still have some defending him saying he didn't have enough time. Well within the first 20mins Chase and Sinfield had combined for the first try and Sinfield put in the kick for the 2nd (both tries are being dismissed as any halfbacks could've done that) and the agenda line is "Sinfield did nothing today".
Wouldn't have Burrow, not versus the Aussies at least, think they're too good at slowing the PTB down for him to be effective in that manner (especially when our forwards get less than crisp passing from the hooker). Rather have a proper hooker interchange to keep the forwards ticking over nicely and to also not sacrifice defensive strength which would happen with Burrow coming on at dummy half.

Can't understand criticism of the halves today. Sinfield had a very good game and so did Chase. Widdop was a waste of a bench spot IMO.
England could easily have won that game. Some naive refereeing and a few little things such as Charnley's foot in touch and some obviously milked penalties for ball steals (and the sudden noticing of forward passes by the Australian touch judge after he missed 3-4 blatant Australian examples) cost us the match.
A tremendously competitive and high quality game.

Sinfield was as good as Cronk today. Thurston was the best half on display, but that was no surprise, he's a level above any English half and that's hardly Sinfield's fault.

Hill's offload game really bothered the Aussies. Shame Graham and maybe even Crabtree weren't available to add to that instead of Tom Burgess (who didn't look ready) and Mossop (who didn't look good enough). George Burgess looked the real deal, and thought Roby was very good too. No reason he can't play 80.

George Burgess owned them up front. I thought Fifita would have done well off the bench but none of them were anywhere close to George Burgess. I thought Widdop did alright and we played more expansively when he came on but we were already under the pump by then. I saw nothing from Chase to suggest that he is an international half but I don't think Burrow is the answer either.

You thought Widdop did all right, but Chase nothing?

Dear god, Widdop was garbage. Chase did well.

Your right Burrows isnt the answer but he would have done good. the answer is the reigning man of steel but hes ing about with some part time players trying to win the RLWC!!! pfffttt waste of time..

Agree about Tom Burgess and Mossop, they were the only real disappointment. Coughed the ball at critical times in the first half as well which helped the Ausies back in the game.
Hill's offloads really worked well.
I also thought Roby quietly went about out playing Cameron Smith.

I like Tomkins at FB, we didn't get enough possession in the right part of the field to fullly exploit his attacking skills, but I think he should stay at FB. Chase put some massive hits in today, deserves another crack.
Agree about dropping the other three. All that bollocx from Cameron Smith about being happy Widdop wasn't starting is exactly that.

Definitely not Chase and Sinfield. Firstly Sinfield is no half back and not been much good all season anyway.
And Chase never knows what he is doing never mind his team mates.
A good half back pairing today and the Aussies would have been bet.

Tom Burgess and Westwood not knocking on in midfield when we had momentum in the first half.
Westwood and Sam Burgess not giving away head high shots.
Westwood not incorrectly PTB underneath the Aussies posts when we'd got the momentum back after George's try.
Charnley not hustling for the 40/20.

Avoid them and the Aussies get beat. With the halfback pairing we had.

We have some good half backs in SL.
McBanana should hang his head in shame, he was supposed to be selecting on form, not on reputation.

That doesn't really answer the problem though does it?
I don't care if you're Widdop, Brough, Burrow, Smith, Thurston or Cronk.
If your forwards knock on in midfield your halves can't do much,
If your forwards give away head high shots your halves can't do much,
If one of your forwards can't PTB correctly near the opposition goal line your halves can't do much,
If your winger doesn't hustle hard enough for a 40/20 then your halves can't do much........REGARDLESS of who they are.

If we were to beat Australia today then it was going to take 17 guys to do it, that so many on these boards are so obsessed with 2 positions maybe coming up with 'special' stuff is weak and lazy thinking towards the game. Wigan are a perfect example this year of having 'non exciting' halves yet being EFFECTIVE.

My God you REALLY seem to think that the presence on the field of Danny Brough today would have been the difference between England beating the Kangaroos and losing to them

Bang on this.
For me personally i'd have had Ratchford on the bench instead of Widdop and Crabtree/Graham for T.Burgess/Mossop plus after Westwoods stupidity and Ablett with the ridiculous penalty he conceded on Slater if the Coach is Ruthless both will drop out of the 17 for Farrell and O'Loughlin.
One thing to note also in the cold light of day is the Aussie team were at about 65/70% today imo and in the end won fair and square they will only get better the big ?? for England is if they can raise their game for the full 80 in time for a crack at the kiwis.

I thought Sinfield was one of our better players tbh, he doesn't have that ability to attack the line at full pelt like Cronk or Thurston but everyone knew that before the tournament. He's our 7 for the rest of the WC, I just hope he doesn't get moved to hooker again.

Widdop tried to do that when he came on I showed a lot more than Chase.

I thought KS went pretty well, going back to the OP, in an ideal world he isn't the answer for an international half, but there is no one better IMO

Play widdop and we have absolutely zero structure.
Brough - Scottish
Matty smith and myler - surprised smith isn't in the squad, myler could be an international in the future.
McGuire - injured and probably finished at international level.

I just don't see a better option its not just in SL but in the the Nrl there seems to be a real draught in top class halves coming through. ( granted the Aussies are still in a better position than us)

I suppose though that Graham, hardaker and Micky mac limited out options yesterday by going out on the , I would have thought that if not for this Micky would have been on the bench

Who mentioned Brough. Last time we were in Aus Robinson was the outstanding half back and never considered this time, but Myler and Ratchford from Warrington also overlooked. But he picks half backs from teams finishing 3rd (and not even a half back ) and 12 ( and he`s not even English ).
What a plonker.

Kevin Sinfield has been the most influential player in any side during the SL era - simple.

To add to the list of T. Burgess and Mossop, I don't think Ablett is good enough for Internationals either. Personally I think McNamara is not up for the job, there is a better England team to be picked and I think he's going with 'safe' options rather than picking players newer to the International stage but coming off the back of a good SL season.

You appear to think you're less transparent than you actually are

Do you actually watch any NRL?
They could afford to leave Daly Cherry-Evans out of their squad who would walk into any other team in the world.
Plus there are a number of other half backs coming through who'd also be an improvement on anything we can offer.
I think that unforced errors were the main difference yesterday.
Unfortunately The Aussies will improve, Cronk was very quiet & other than the catch for the Thurston try Inglis was comparatively anonymous too.
The fact that they can afford to leave Jennings out speaks volumes for the depth of the Aussie backs.
We should have capitalised on catching them cold.

Has been or still is ? And for how much longer.

He is a player in decline - even in decline he has very few superiors

Have to agree.

However I still say Tomkins would be better in the halves taking the place of Chase - Sinfield looked the better of the two - with Hardaker at FB. (Pretty sure he would not have been outjumped by Ingliss). Widdop was a waste of space and would have another forward on the bench; it also has to be said Ablett is not an international at this level.

As for George Burgess....who was it that said props have to have matured a great deal before they can be considered world class??

Bring on the kids ...