My point that the norm for average on this scale is a 6. And hence why I said surely any player making 40 tackles in a game should be given at least an average mark.

It is pretty obvious - Sinfield is only Leeds forward who defends in the middle who regularly plays 80 minutes. The combined figure for Diskin and Buderus on Saturday - 53 whilst they did play some of the game together it does show the potential of a player defending in the middle playing 80 minutes. 40 doesn't sound spectacular when you compare to the 55-65 that Hindmarsh makes regularly in a much more intense league?

But it's not that simple is it.

Take the games when Sinfield was missing.

Huddersfield away. JJB at 13, 20 tackles made and 2 misses.
Hull KR home, JJB at 13, 28 tackles made and 1 miss.
Wigan away, JJB at 13, 27 tackles made and 5 misses.

It's irrelevant what Hindmarsh does in the NRL. It's what Leeds players do that is relevant. The stats on the other page show the only player who is continually in high tackles made at Leeds, regardless of who is in that position.

Had you took Sinfield out of the lineup at Saints, nobody at the club would have filled that defensive gap. Saints would IMO have had more points.

Hardly. The quality of discussion on this board would be greatly improved if more of the regular posters were educated to the level of BrisbaneRhino.

Did JJB play for the full 80 minutes in them games? Sinfield is probably one of the higher earners at Leeds, for thatreason his expected performance is higher than other, he also puts his hand up to be a playmaker, a kicker captain and do an 80 minutes slot at loose forward. This, whilst making him an exceptional player in the Leeds team means that he has to do a lot more than others to get an average score . His average performance may be better on the whole than other players good performance but in the context of the tasks he takes on it may be still average. For this he suffers but at the end of the day I doubt he's too worried about whether he was given a 5 or a 6 on an internet forum.

I disagree with that, the team would absorb those tackles as one, although more may have been missed.

What sinfield brings us is the ability to regularly top the tackle count, and be as reliable in minute 1 as minute 80 with it. Not something many people can say.

Once he's finished defending, he's hurting the opposition with ball in hand.

You know what, that reminds me of my son's football team, and it really pishes me off.

His team have finished 2nd in the league this year scoring 76 goals along the way.

My son's best mate has scored 38 of the goals setting up 11 for others, and my son has scored 28 of the goals and set up 29 of the others. Take those two out of the side and the team would not have won a single game, as most of the parents accept.

Yet when my son or his mate have an off day, you hear people having a grumble. Their off day is still 10 times the performance of their team mates. But still people grumble.

They also grumble when their sons don't get games yet my son and his mate play every game.

My argument has always been that you don't penalise your best players just because the rest are way behind. It is up to team mates to aspire to be as good as that other player, and prove that when given a chance.

Why did the '05 cup final jump into my mind when reading that.

Because he was awarded the Lance Todd for his performance?

Yep, maybe because it was so un-Sinfield like and just happened to be cup losing missed tackled.

I'm a massive Sinfield fan and he's made up for that miss 100 times over it just came into my head when he said it.

I always had it down as Danny Ward with the miss on Cooke. I may have to look bcak at it

In between the two

T'was. The set of six given to Hull by Mathers and Calderwood fluffing a kick led to it. Also, Ward might've been fresher with McDermott on the bench. Also, Senior shouldn't have been picked. Also, Bai shouldn't have had a brain fart. etc etc.

These are all the things that pop into my head when remembering that game, along with Sinfield getting the Lance Todd.

Take Sinfield out of the attack against Saints and we might have scored more points? and given away less penalties - he gave away 3 himself?

So assuming you are correct, one would counteract the other. i.e.good defence, poor attack.

That in my books is an average mark then. Which is exactly what I have been saying.

It also shows that different people can rate performances differently as they may have different criterias in their own heads of what is expected from the players. This can be moreso for pivotal players who are in a position to influence the game. In professional sport that can be exaggerrated when some players earn much more than others and therefore the expectation of their average performance is much greater than other players.

You exclude the captain bit and the penalties - less than average mark when all taken into account

No, I included the penalties. I did not include the captain bit, because it's wrong.

As already mentioned, a captains role is to lead by example. He did that defensively.

The fact that the rest of our team are not capable of producing anything with ball in hand, without Sinfields influence, is hardly his problem.

They can; problem was Sinfield had his hands on the ball - so they couldn't simple

What was the excuse for the 4 games that Sinfield was missing? was that JJB's fault?

Sinfield hold his hand up to be a ball player, hence his interception pass, the fact that hedoes this is a positive, the fact that it reduces the onus on the SH and SO to be ballplayers and inpose themselves on a game can be a positive or a negative. The fact that we have a creative LF puts pressure on the other forwards to do more dummy running and hitups whilst on the field,fortunately we normally have a Jamoe Peacock to help do this.

Having seen their attempts to do this while Sinfield was out of the side I'd say it's a huge positive...

I agree, but is it a case that because Sinfield is there McGuire and Burrow have not had the full opportunity or need to develop their ballplaying/organisational skills to the full level or has Sinfields presence masked their inability to do this?

If they had been in the game a couple of years, that might well be a perfectly fair question.

As it stands now though, we have seen many enough years to be able to feel certain which bit is a certainty.

danny ward.