I agree with you. Let's not forget from the very start of the season the defence has been a shambles.....the thing that many expected to be worked on specifically during the long close season. There was plenty of time to perfect discipline and answers to the enforced lay off of both McGuire and Peacock.

The players are lacking confidence progressively more as the season progresses...is that not the coaches' job to rectify that ? They hardly seem to be the most inspirational



The best sales force performs better under an inspirational and dynamic [urespected[/u management. They respond. I do not see that.

I've seen Leeds with good squads on paper play dreadfully, and poor squads play well. The difference was the coach. Whilst injuries have undoubtedly affected the team this year, if you look at the 17 we put out every week there is absolutely no reason it can't at least compete with any side in SL (not necessarily win but compete). It is the players that make mistakes etc, but I get the distinct impression the team doesn't want to play for Brian Mc.

That was eth conclusion I drew from the "efforts" at goal line defence Friday.

Let analyse JC's proposition.

It's the players. The players who, in the main, set the SL standard with 3 GF wins on the bounce.

It's not the coach. The coach who took Harlequins further down the league table year after year.

I eagerly await another half page post full of excuses.

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned anywhere, but where was Brian Mac sat for the match? I may have been wrong, but I couldn't see him in the dug-out?

I think the injuries haven't helped, but some of the problems seem to be systemic. We still produced a few decent individual, off-the-cuff plays on Friday, but our attack lacked structure (some of which I concede comes down to the players) and simple things like (most notably) marker defence are letting us down week after week. Even when the attractive rugby is working going forward you have to be able to defend.

Wherever he was sat he came in for some stick according to the YEP!
G1 i think you are being unfair on JC lets be honest the injuries loss of confidence and constant changes to the 17 are rellevant and the players have to shoulder some of the blame for the awful errors tbf mate.

I hate to point this out to you Gareth, but petrol has gone over £1 a litre and we no longer have a Labour government.

Sport is about looking ahead and planning for the future, not about offering contracts on the basis of past glories. What these players achieved in 2007-2009 should have had absolutely no bearing on recruitment/retention for 2011 and beyond.

McDermott's inherited a group of players with all the hunger of Mr Creosote when presented with a wafer-thin mint.

That's opinion, and I'm afraid I don't buy it. the look on JJB's face stood in the dug-out, or Sinfield's expression as he came off the field, to name but two, didn't suggest a lack of hunger.

I also saw little evidence of a lack of effort in Friday's performance. Plenty of evidence of being disorganised and short of focus. Players do take some blame for that, but the coach does too. Past glories or not, I still believe (also opinion, of course) that there is a blend of experience and young talent in this Leeds squad which, while I don't think makes it a real title contender, is capable of much better than this.

Disagree. the majority of the squad are winners. I think they still want to be winners. Prior to last Friday JJB had made 80 tackles in 2 games. That doesn't strike me as a player not hungry.

What about the players Mcdermott inherited at Harlequins? Are we just ignoring his track record there as irrelevant?

Defence is at least 50% hunger and enthusiasm to put your body on the line so you don't let down the bloke next to you in the defensive line, particularly goal-line defence.

If you think Leeds aren't lacking in effort then fair enough, that's your opinion. It's not one I share mind. Even with a fairly mediocre defensive structure you can cover up the cracks by being prepared to work that bit harder. I don't see too many Leeds players being prepared to put in the sort of shift required, and haven't for the last 12 months or so (occasional displays such as Wigan away in the playoffs apart).

Wasn't his job at Quins to rebuild the team after a lot of outward traffic? where he was also instructed to increase the number of young british players in the team?

In other words a rebuilding job replacing past it players.

So if they still want to be winners, why are they heading backwards in their individual and collective development at a rate of knots if it's not through lack of application? Players don't suddenly forget how to tackle, or how to communicate in defence, yet it appears this lot have. If it's not collective attitude and desire then what is it?

His Harlequins record is about as relevant as Leeds 2007-2009 GF wins to current form, so feel free to introduce it if you think it helps you.

Andy, I am a simple man. I've seen these players do what no on else in SL has done before.

I've seen these coaches fail badly at their previous clubs. I'd be happy for you to persuade me that the coaches are not in some way to blame for the sorry state of performances. Telling me the past track record of a coach is irrelevant is not convincing me.

What is convincing me is....

"Defence will sort itself out"
"Completion rates are unimportant"
"Watch me flick this rubber glove fellas"

As I said elsewhere I don't think we're the best team in the league any more and I doubt we've the players to win it this year but my view is competent coaches could improve this team by some distance.

If you judge coaches on results, the evidence is in for Lowes and McDermott. If you judge them on improving the teams performances, the results are in.

Just what are you judging them on to conclude the current malaise is not down to them, btw?

Absolutely no question whatsoever.

There is many questions to that. It is not that simple, and my own opinion as I have repeated several times is that had Wayne Bennett been here with the same players and the same injuries, we would still be struggling for a top 4 place.

It's very simple - good coaches get more out of their team than bad coaches do.

McDermott and Lowes are bad coaches. Good coaches would do better.

The way Leeds have approached games this season reeks of bad coaching, flinging the ball around aimlessly before putting in some hard work and moving forward.

What a simplistic way of looking at it.

We had a guy coaching us who was a world cup winner and won two super league titles and a world club championship. How many other of these good coaches that you speak of have a record like that?

That same coach could only get us to sneak into fourth place last season on the last game of the season. It was a team going backwards rapidly. He saw the situation and left before his CV was effected this year.

But you still blame the new coach?

It may well turn out that McDemott is a poor coach as you put it, but that certainly is not the reason for the current Leeds situation.

Rubbish. Love to see you say that to the players.

Well said

I'm not "blaming" the new coach, I'm saying there is nothing to suggest he is a top coach and a top coach would do better; it's what top coaches do. His assistant is a proven shocker of a coach too.

They looked bizarre appointments when they happened and they are being proven to be so with every week that passes.

So what's the explanation for last year when the older players were a year younger?

I don't recall you ever looking even remotely as sh*t last year as you do this, so I don't really see your point.

Yeah the malaise is deep and credit to you Gotcha for being the most emphatic about seeing the writing on the wall.... All people are saying is we have a hopeless coach compounding the problem.

Undoubtedly a better coach would get better results....still not satisfactory maybe, but ' better '

In a way I am happy to see the present situation.... It might result in the rocket up the ass sooner. Better to have tissue paper covering the fissures rather than cardboard.

Really? So how many points did we have at this stage last season compared to this?

Make no mistake we look sh*t, that there is no doubt, and it may well pan out that the coch is not up to the job. But don't kid yourself that the players we have at the moment are what they were in 2009 and before, because they are nothing like mate.

As sh*t as we do look though, I can't remember a performance throughout the whole of last season that came anything close to the first 65 minutes we put in against Wigan. I supposse that was just down to the players though?

There's got to be some sort of balance when dishing out the blame or criticising performances.
Two things alot of fans thought/hoped would of improved under Brian Mc were discipline and defence and both are still woefull.
As for the players they could and should be producing much better but don't lok like they want to play for the coach imo and no matter how pi$$ed off they looked at FT they should look in the mirror at alot of what they've produced.
The coaches also have to shoulder some blame Gotcha i accept injuries are beyond their control and of course seasoned pros should'nt be tackling like Andy Hay or passing into the stands but there seems to be no defensive structure or switch in policy with the ball when we can all see we need to be more desperate in defence and get back to completion ,a good kicking game and basic RL before we try the fancy stuff.
I also think he should be stronger and drop the under-oerformers injuries or not even if it's only to the bench to point out that what's served up is'nt acceptable.
The u20's before fridays game were outmuscled up against a big team and did a lot of defence but showed hunger ,desire ,structure and only lost on goal kicks the head coach should have a word with Gibson and find out what he's doing right.

9: same as this year, but then you had played Wigan and Huddersfield AWAY from home and had a positive points difference rather than a negative one.



I appreciate that, I'm just talking about how the team looks like its being coached when out on the park. They quite often look an absolute shambles in defence and attack and I can't see how that is all down to the players.



More of the headless chicken stuff came off than in your other games, and Wigan were woeful (they crucified Leeds for 15 minutes but made several terrible decisions then proceeded to implode), although they still drew the game.