Chris, with respect, it is ok to criticise Leeds you know?

That performance on Thursday with the ball was simply not good enough. When youve overlaps but keep choosing the wrong option everytime that is poor play not poor weather.

Did we use inside balls, did we change direction in attack with drop off plays, how many offloads did we do, did we run in 2s and 3s all things that must be done in those conditions? The answer is no.

That performance, taken as a 1 off game was nowhere near for a club like Leeds. Its wrong to write it off because we may have a good year in the long run.

From 1 to 17 and including the coaching staff that attacking performance was totally unacceptable to me. I cant make any excuses at all for it. We have to do a hell of a lot better and its fair to say so.

If you need to bring a headless chicken on at 9 to salvage a game then your papering over the cracks. Rich and especially Long need to have a long hard look at themselves if they need Dwyer running round like nutter in order to get over the tryline because nothing else looks even close to working.

Calm,controlled, intelligent, Delivery...Some words id use to use describing a good 9, id include all 4 describing Johnson, id use none describing Dwyer.

I’ve criticised them, read my posts, especially after the game. I thought we were terrible, what I’m not going to do is write them off. I also didn’t blame the weather it was a general point.

On to the team, if Handley isn’t 100% id rest him.

Wakey play off the cuff unstructured Rugby this year, and will be tricky.

1. Walker
2. Fusitu’a
3. Newman
4. Broadbent
5. Tindall
6. Austin
7. Sezer
8. Tetevano
9. Leeming
10. Prior
11. Gannon
12. Martin/Donaldson
13. Smith

14. Dwyer
15. Oledski
16. Sutcliffe
17 Thompson

I would prefer Johnson but I think Dwyer might be the best option against Wakefield

Did the weather come as a shock to anyone? I think we all had a fair idea what the weather would be. We didnt adapt or plan for it by the looks to me.

With regards to Tony Smiths comments its easier to say that after a win really i woyld say. Its not so easy after our type of performance Thursday.

Weve players to come back that will improve us, weve players in new combinations that should improve as they develop, weve players not 100% and weve players working there way back from long term injuries but weve got to be much better.

I expected us to challenge for top 4 at the start of the year and still do but were miles off that from the last 2 performances.

Again the weather was a general point, the season starts too early and playing in the type of conditions we’ve had for the last 3 weeks isn’t great for anyone, teams players and spectators, i specifically said it’s the same for both teams snd not an excuse, not sure why that point has bothered you.

I still expect us to challenge for top 4, but yes of course we need to be better, losing the first 3 doesn’t automatically mean we won’t get better though.

It's not about the defeats for me.
I can take being 0 from 3, especially against 3 teams who will probably finish above us.
It's the manner of the defeats that is the concern.
We look really badly coached and totally devoid of any game plan.
That doesn't suddenly change overnight.
Dwyer is the case in point - we have him on the bench as a last resort to try and salvage something from a game.
Smacks of fear and desperation.
I'm sure getting Newman, Fusitua, Martin and Bentley back will help - but tbh they will probably just replace the next set of players injured or suspended.

I'm not calling for Agar's head, but some decisions, both selection and in game are totally baffling.
Broadbent and Johnson should be playing - but we all know they won't be.
Starting with our only 3 props is utter madness.
And seeing Johnson hung out to dry in the centres was just totally ridiculous.
And Agar, Leeming and team have to get into Smiths head about his lazy tackling.
He's a quality player and should start at 13, but the 6 agains kills us every time. But it should be fixable.

I admire your optimism Chris, and I hope you're saying I told you so in a couple of months when we have a few W's on the board.
But I just can't see it at the moment.
Next 3 games, really are must win, but are also winnable. With the right selections and an actual game plan.

Sick of hearing that Smiths a quality player, no evidence of this what so ever, he’s championship std, offers nothing in attack no running or passing threat, defensively soft and a penalty machine.
If we are going for a traditional 13 OConnor already looks better option.

The manner of the defeat against wigan was very concerning, thr other two not so much IMO, i thought we were awful against Cats but we did actually create enough chances to win it, we just didn’t take them, both Sutcliffe and Gannon should have kept hold if the ball and if they do we score and win it’s not as if we got thumped and as I say we were very poor.

It’s not about optimism its about pragmatism, we do have the players, we need another prop and im not convinced about Sutcliffe but i just don’t see the point in writing the team off after 3 games, everyone can have whatever opinion they want, my opinion is that these 3 games won’t define the full season.

For me this isnt about 3 games it's about last season also being littered with similar efforts and we should have moved on now from putting in 2 of those back to back. I was equally critical of performances last year and was told by others that given X Y and Z circumstances I was being unfair/unrealistic, well here we still are. Look at the continuation of mediocrity Hull FC have had, we need to be better than that.

Very well said.

Agree 100%

Do we have a return date for Martin? I have no issue with his compassionate leave, but we could really do with him back especially now Mellor is likely to be missing.

Having watched the Catalan game again , that is undoubtedly is the worst display of distribution I have seen from a hooker for many years - that from our hookers in the second half.
I then sat and watched Hull KR v Castleford and watched a virtually perfect man of the match performance from a hooker - great distribution , solid defence , penetrating sniping runs and great link up play - who else but Matt Parcell .
Lock our 2 hookers in a room for a couple of days to watch the tape, until they are brainwashed.

Flies back this weekend.

I know very few people will probably agree with me on here but I think Smith is too slow at 13 and i think he slows the game down and actually hinders the attack. He has the footballing skills and ability and works really hard and puts a shift in but looks a stone overweight me for the role he should be playing.
How many actual defence splitting passes or quality offloads has he actually delivered. A thirteen shpuld either be a ball playing organiser like a Sinfield or a big dynamic lock like a Sam Burgess. Smith seems to be stuck somewhere between the two and unsure what type of forward he wants to be.

He probably falls into a middle!!


He did make 48 tackles on the night I think.

Weve much bigger issues than Cam Smith to be fair.

Struggling to find a high point to discuss from Thursdays poor performance and won’t dwell on the negatives as they have been widely covered. The thing that worried me the most is that Catalan are supposed to be one of the top 3 contenders for this season and what I have seen of them so far is they are going to be mid table at best. Wakey had a mini resurgence against Saints and almost made a game of it. If we are not a lot better than we have been then we are going to lose there too. Then 0 from 4 becomes a much bigger concern. I’ve always been one to say have faith but it is getting harder to believe

Agree and personally I don`t have a problem with Smith.
Half backs, hooker full back, centre and props come much higher on the list for me along with the coach!

How we go about things is key imo. If our approach doesn't change then we'll struggle to score enough to overcome any side prepared to work hard. That trait hasn't been enough for wakey to get a win so far but it ought to if we only manage the odd try or two.

As for Smith, if Bodene did offloads...

Wakefield were excellent against us. They out enthused Saints for large parts of the game, defended well, and made more breaks against us then I have seen in a good while. They gave Catalans a good game the week before (though I agree they have looked average at best currently), and were unfortunate at Hull to fall victim to the current refereeing approach, so I wouldn’t necessarily call it a resurgence, but definitely a tough start.

On another night we may have won 38-6 (we had a try ruled out for a dubious obstruction, and held up twice) but with a few different bounces of the ball, it could have been 20-18.

So did Prior just not come back on because we ran out of subs or is he a concussion issue? He came back on at the end of the 1st half v Catalan, but hardly played 2nd half.

I want to like Smith. His defensive stats are certainly impressive. I'm not seeing it with ball-in-hand though; he often looks too sluggish to be a really standout player on attack. Maybe if some of the other players helped him out in defence a little more, he'd have a bit more energy?

We probably shouldn't underestimate losing Mellor after 2 minutes on Thursday. All the forwards had to work harder, and Thompson simply doesn't offer enough in attack. That said, I would have hoped with our much vaunted first choice props in the 17 (including Oledski, Prior and Tetevano) we should have had enough to dominate a Catalans pack missing some big forwards.

Otherwise, I really hope we don't need to use Briscoe too much in the centres this season. Sutcliffe finally started looking like a threat in the last 15 minutes but it was too little too late by then. First choice centres really ought to be Newman and Broadbent.

Agree with all that other than Sutcliffe whilst making a couple of breaks did not have the legs for one and dropped the ball for another.
Neither he or Briscoe should be our centres.

Totally agree with that. I am not blaming Smith for our issues however I think there is a coaching issue that is not helping him maximise his undoubted potential. It looks to me that a some point somebody has told hime to concentrate on his overall workrare and he has bulked up to support this. I just think he would benefit from dropping a few pounds and being more mobile and getting out of the middle channels from time to time. Look at the way Bateman influenced the game vs Leeds popping up in different areas. Its up to others to step up defensively in the tackling stats and the carries down the middle. I still would have him in my 17 every week.