I wasn't saying it was a hard and fast rule, which all players had to go down, just that there is a pattern of a path to the first team.

my main point is that if the player is good enough he will succeed, regardless of whether its at leeds or not

I can see where Gotcha feels Leeds are risking losing some up and coming talent by not offering full-time contracts but unless or until it comes back to bite them on the rear I'm not sure it's a view that is going to gain much traction around here. Obviously I speak from a little experience in this regard.

The primary job of the Academy is to prepare SL capable players to top up the 1st grade squad between numbers 23 and 28 - then it's up to themselves and their coaches to see them fulfil their potential and wherever that takes them. In some cases they'll do that direct, in others they'll carry on gaining open age experience out on loan or through these new fangled dual deals at the Championship level.

Many will neccessarily fall by the wayside and occassionally one may even come back and embarrass the club a little. Such is sport and life.

It's not like Leeds have been shy about giving full time deals to Academy prospects when they think they are merited - clearly in this case for whatever reason they didn't think Carvill was at that standard.

Isn't this similar to what happened with Keal Carlisle when the Giants signed him?

That doesn't make it a myth. We have a few players who have gone from the loan system to the first team, but you should also consider that part of the point of it is to send them out to the grown up league and see how they fare. I would imagine they are watched quite closely while they're there. If some of them are subsequently deemed not good enough and cut loose, then surely finding that out in another environment is better than doing it in our own first team, so you could account that a success of the system. Generally if our loaned out players do very well then they end up back in the first team squad.

McShane did play a decent number of league games (over half) this year, which makes him a first team player in my book.

We had a lot of pplayers introduced straight to the first team around 2000 and 2001, but that wasn't really choice, we just had a very thin squad. It paid dividends in the end, but the powers that be might have preferred to loan out McGuire, Mathers, Burrow, Diskin etc had they had the opportunity.

With the salary cap being what it is, it's handy to be able to delay decisions on promoting these lads by a year to see how they develop shortly. The path is clearly there, so not a myth. WOuld you say unicorns were a myth because you'd only seen 5 of them?

And lets face it - most of those released or loaned haven't been snapped up by clubs at the top of the food chain. Presumably their views have reflected our own.

Why is Mathers included on that list when he was loaned out to Warrington for a spell and IIRC they were keen to make it permanent had Leeds been agreeable at the time.

You may recall it was around the time he was vying for a squad place with Richie Spedding.

gotcha i really would have thought youd have done your homework before you made that statement on ages, singleton is younger than carvill, and in school years a hole year younger,singleton has just come out of un18s,carvill wasnt eligable for 18s this season gone as he was to old !so officaly this comeing season carvill would be in his 2nd year un2os and singleton would be in his first year of 20s, think coz singleton been playing 20s for a long time you think hes older than he is !

At the bottom of this article states that our squad will be announced at the end of this week - www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... _1_3947068 Should be interesting to see where abouts the likes of Lee Smith will fit in the squad, can't see there being any signings now, unless we announce one alongside the squad announcement.

At the bottom of this article states that our squad will be announced at the end of this week - www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... _1_3947068 Should be interesting to see where abouts the likes of Lee Smith will fit in the squad, can't see there being any signings now, unless we announce one alongside the squad announcement.

I'm very happy with our academy additions of Brad Singleton, Liam Hood and Stevie Ward to our first team squad for 2012

We now look to have the next generation of forwards "prospectively" in line which will accompany our youthful back line for many seasons to come

Regarding Ward, the club recently sent a delegation of players and officials of the club to Woodkirk Academy in order to allow him to be able to be granted school release <and during his important "A level" exams> in order that he can go on the clubs pre-season tour, my understanding is that this has been allowed

im more than happy with the team in my Signature.

I agree, it is a good squad. I personally would still rather see Hardaker playing full back when Webb leaves, i think he could make a fantastic full back. I wouldn't complain either way, if we signed a decent player then i wouldn't complain, but i am happy with our current squad because of the amount of youth that are in our squad, and this side won us the Grand Final. This is the most exciting squad we have had in my opinion since 2004, so i am not expecting but hoping for a good season this year, because we have the squad (signing or no signing) to do it again.

I agree it's a very good squad and should be challenging for honours in 2012. However I would not be against signing a player who can make a difference to quote GH. Will the Rhinos only name 24 players and keep a space free for a quality player to come in if available as we're way under the salary cap?

Doubtful, would rather see some of that salary spent on extending Halls contract than a new player, not too sure what sort of player would make a difference, Sika Manu maybe at 14, other than that not too sure.

Might be going to Castleford.



And who would you feel deserves to lose their spot in that 25?

Would be happy to go into the season with the squad in frosties sig. Can't see there being anyone out there available who would improve it much.

Not a bad signing for Cas then if true, can't really see any other "quality" players available other than him.

Very difficult but it might be a player going out on loan. Is that story of Webb going to the NZ Warriors now finished?

If you don't think Sika Manu is better than Jay Pitts then I'll have what you're drinking.

Amazing how a GF win changes people's mindset isn't it? If we'd not won it last season, there'd be no way that we'd have been happy with the same squad (minus Ali, & Buderus).

Both are players that need replacing in some form. Now maybe the likes of Pitts and McShane are considered ready to replace them internally. I'm not convinced, but I think this squad now has a good blend of youth and experience. I would like to see a bit more quality added in there.

The squad last season struggled throughout the main season, and was clearly more focussed on the play-offs than we thought, but as paying fans is a good play-off run an acceptable return for your £200+ a year?

Very fair and valid points LR but we won the GF and that's the aim at the start of the year.
I agree there was a lot of dross pre-Wembley and hopefully we won't have to go through that again but at the start of the year when handing over yer £200.00 had GH asked would you take a CC final loss and a GF win from 5th you would of bit his hand off would'nt you?
I too hope IF we sign anyone else they add quality but i'm happy to give the young guns the shirts and back them.

Some sense at last.

We would have been lucky to make the play offs last season without Buderus, let alone gone on to win the GF. He was hugely instrumental in us staying in touch when things were not working.

Now he's gone, and not replaced. McShane will never ever in a million years come close to how Buderus performed for us last year. But if he can get half way there that's good going.

Yet again we have players getting older, and to add to it we have lost 5 members of the first choice 17 that started the season last year. Replaced with two players.

What we achieved last year was a phenominal effort, something that I doubt will be repeated by any club. However, we were not dominant, not the best team, and not consistent enough to warrant not making sufficient changes.

I think its a balance. Since 2007, Leeds have learned how to play the play-off game, better than everyone else. We haven't always had the best squad, but on the field, when it matters we have generally had the best team. I think that is brilliant. Many times in the past we have had a brilliant squad, but no team, and no silverware.

for me there needs to be a balance. As a sports team we should be doing everything we can to win the big prizes, and that may mean taking the 'main' season easy, and building momentum towards the play-offs. However, after a certain amount of time, a proportion of fans may get wise to it, and think 'If they can't be bothered, then why should I be?'
If that starts to happen, then the club will start to lose fans, and revenue, and the most stable revenue it has in its season ticket holders.

Now, as someone who lives a little too far away to commit to going to that many matches I have to say it doesn't bother me that much. However, the club has to do all it can to attract fans, and new fans particularly to the club. While we have been sucessful over the recent years, our attendances have been in decline. Now I have no handle on the money in club, but the bottom line is we're a business. I would suggest that had we not 'got lucky*' and won the GF, then we would have seen a significant drop in season tickets. Many fans need to see some reason to continue to invest their money and emotion in a team. I'd be surprised of GH hasn't something in the pipeline. Not because we need a better squad, but because he'll have seen some of the issues last season and seen we could do with some freshening up, some cause for optimism. SL has got stronger, and although we can still clearly compete with the best on our day, we can't always hope to compete from 5th.

* By 'got lucky' I mean that effectively we were relying on the outcome of 1 or 2 games to generate a feel good factor around the club, and raise interest.

Where did I say Jay Pitts was better than Sika Manu. If that were to happen and Sika Manu came into the squad, I would see Jay Pitts moving to another club.

Squad numbers announced tomorrow according to YEP.

Obst has been relased by Hull