The games I mentioned were games were the odds were well against Leeds yet he put a game plan together that really delivered.

They count as much as the post cup slump 2014 - who coached that?

They count like the 15 losses from 23 games last season who coached that?

Who coached the CC final losses in 2011, 2012

Or don't they count only the wins count?

As I said coaching is about delivering improvement in playing standards and excellence on the field - can you honestly say that is what you will remember McDermott's reign for that?

For me it is all about a few key games - the majority of the rugby has been turgid uninspired stuff not worthy of the quality of player under his control

The bile on this forum is unbelievable sometimes.

In the last few pages of this thread, we've been told that two of the most successful coaches in the history of this club owe their success largely to their predecessors Tony Smith and Daryl Powell (who won NOTHING in his time at Leeds). McClennan did a lot more than just keep things going - he was responsible for a pretty visible culture change, which was pretty obvious in his first year in charge. Likewise, Brian McDermott oversaw a shift away from a decline that set in in the third year of McClennan's tenure to see the team win GFs, CCs and the Treble when many people, including (surprise surprise) the very same culprits on this forum had written Leeds off.

We've also been told that Brian McDermott only improved Keinhorst during his time at the club. Jesus, some people have very selective memories. Ashton Golding has improved from last year pretty dramatically in my reckoning. A lot of people were writing off Stevie Ward in his first full season. Were Hardaker and Watkins already superstars under McClennan? I think not. There are probably many more examples - Delaney's move to the forwards before he became injury prone etc.

I'd argue that the responsibility to improve as individuals lies with the players themselves, whereas the coach's role is to pick the team and get them to perform as a collective unit - which Brian Mac has shown plenty of evidence of. Like all his predecessors, including Smith, McClennan and the godlike Powell (who STILL has won nothing for all his deserved plaudits at Cas), he has overseen slumps in form - but this should never detract from his achievements. I know none of the other coaches has as bad a season as 2016 at Leeds - but none had to do without Sinfield for a full season either.

Selective memories?
You do know what natural talent & potential are right?
What's happened to Watkins?
Stevie Ward was potentially twice the player we see under this regime he has/had the vision & passing game to become an excellent pivot at13 not just a battering ram & run it in SR.
Every player you've listed oozed it & more plus Delaney always was a BR who played centre even by his own admission.
What you clearly dont know or see is how much promise & talent alot of these youngsters have already which alot of others see year on year within our Acadamy set up.
Also wrt Sinfield he knew he'd be without him & JP for a hell of a long time yet here we are still struggling.
So i'll stick with my original opinion thanks.

Not that there's much point, but my view is that McDermott was a great coach for us where it counts - in terms of trophy wins. I don't see much indicating he's good at player development or coaching a struggling side, and personally I think he should have left with a pat on the back after last year.

As it is this year looks like a mid-table side on paper and on the field so far. I have some sympathy in that I don't think the squad is anywhere near as good as it should be if we realistically want to win trophies again, but I for one just don't see McDermott being the guy to get us back on top.

Agree BR.

Haven't taken the Car for a while best places to park tonight?

Thank you

I find it quite odd and a tad amusing that not so long ago many on here were bemoaning the merits of having Sinfield in the side and canvassing for a young bloke called Sutcliffe to be given his chance as Sinfield was too slow and was a liability.
Equally those who were and still are saying how much JP trained the team and was a natural leader seem to forget how he led HKR to relegation and even offered to stand down as a leader after last season.
Now don`t get me wrong both Sinfield and JP were imense for Leeds but all of a sudden we are a bad team and the only reason we were a good team was down to those 2.
The squad and possibly the coach are no longer good enough and probably past their sell by date.
This applies to our "pivots" who simply don`t have it in them anymore.
Our forwards are bang average with a couple or so exceptions.
Our backs no longer scare the pants off the opposition maybe because they don`t get enough ball from the halves or that they have gone backwards in their development.
Our promising youngsters are constantly over looked and farmed out elsewhere and I know for sure a couple of those promising youngsters are getting somewhat miffed at their lack of development and poor treatment from our coach and CEO.
We need a complete overhaul from top to bottom and we need to identify class players to fill the key positions in this team.
Youngsters no longer want to come to Leeds as they see the development of of other youngsters inferior to other clubs.
Decent players no longer want to come to Leeds as "we win trophies" no longer applies.
The coach I feel needs replacing but then again I am not sure many coaches could get any more out of this team.
Most supporters can see where we need to strengthen and I am sure the coach and CEO can see it too.
Why they don`t do anything is anyones guess.
Maybe they no longer have the appetite or maybe there`s no money in the bank.
But if we don`t do anything this year to strengthen for 2018 we will be in the bottom 4 for sure imo of course.

Wow. How do you get out of bed on a morning with that kind of mindset Sal?



It's not all about key games at all, you need to win the games before them to be in a position to win trophies or semi finals.
But if you want to pretend that it is all about key games then compare Mac's record with any other coach in SL in "key games".

As for improvement and playing standards.... You can harp on about last year for as long as you want. We all know, you included, the reasons for a disastrous first half to the season. No one saw that coming, you even tipped Leeds to finish top.

Go back a year and most were of the same opinion about just how good we were and even the Leeds hating Phil Clarke said Leeds played the best rugby he'd seen in 20-30 years. Not you of course, you tipped Leeds to not even make the top 4 and wrote them off mid way through the season after a couple of defeats, showing once again how absolutely clueless you are.

We're 3 games into a new season and with 2 wins and a narrow loss away at Saints you've written the players and coach off again... You might be right, but looking at your past ramblings and predictions
i'd say there's a very strong chance you're wrong...

[uYou usually are.[/u

Anyway, no more posts on this one from me. I'm bored and too busy.

Enjoy the game tonight and hope you get the result (a heavy loss) that you want. You seem to enjoy those more than wins for some demented reason.



I'll be hoping for a win.

Good points chappylad. I think you summed it up for me with the line 'the squad and the coach are no longer good enough and probably past their sell by date'

I don't agree that another coach couldn't get more out of this squad though.not that i think its a stellar squad or i think it can win trophies right now, but with a new voice and fresh ideas we still have players within the group that are capable of playing some top rugby and a few may be given a fresh lease of life.

Completely agree BF i genuinely think that this current crop albeit far from the best squad can & should be better than what they've produced & include last year.

Biff and chapylad make excellent points. I think it's a given fact that this is the weakest rhinos squad for many years. So therefore the Debate should be how have we arrived at this situation.
Is it a collective failure, or is it down to Gary. Perhaps no money was available to Brian mac. Maybe the club thought the current crop of youngsters would be good enough. Is all the clubs money and efforts concentrating on the ground redevelopment.
At the moment the thread seems to be several posters devoting time and effort in verbal fisticuffs with each other.
My main comment would be ,this group of players along with the coach aren't good enough to win anything this season.

The town centre car parks then walk down wheldon rd. These do get full on match days so don't leave it late.

Park near Castlefields Pub/Hotel - a big free car park. 10 minute walk, just follow the Cas fans. WF10 4AB

Grow up - your usual selective posting is once again evident here - all good is McDermott, all bad is not - your logic is duly noted.

The games I mentioned were for the most part games leading to finals - I have said it before you struggle both with reading and comprehension - the red mist descends and you lose the ability to post anything coherent



Trot along and bend over GH must be ready to give you an injection of Leeds!!

Just checked on Google Maps.
Castlefield's Pub is across the road from a Car Park.
That Pub any good?

This. plenty of space, free and a short walk. Google castlefields pub for postcode.

tonight?

Leave yourself 15 to 20 mins to walk down to the ground though

not bad pub, but quite expensive, leave 15 to 20 mins to walk it though, 2 hours if you do 1 step forward 5 back, after the beer

also dont park anywhere near wheldon road, as you wont be home till midnight.

Neither will already heard Ward is out & Jjb would never be fit with a torn ligament in his foot.

Been told Burrow is ill so that's another one for the list.

Golding
Handley
Watkins
Moon
Hall
Sutcliffe
Mcguire
Cuthbertson
Parcell
Singleton
Keinhorst
Delaney
Walters

Ormondroyd
Lilley
Baldwinson
Mullally

Handley just preferred to Briscoe or has he got a problem too? Couldn't disagree if he's just preferred.

When Walters starts you know you're in trouble. And that bench!