Fwiw there are a few folk who I have spoken to who are also thinking of taking the pick n choose option, for similar reasons to your own.

The coach I travel with has been suffering from dwindling numbers to games for the last year. The main reason given? Leeds don't start to play till the end of the season so we'll start going then.

To each thier own I spose, as is oft quoted on here we live in a capitalist culture, as long as you pays your monies why should the club change?

But next season every game matters!

Ah, we haven't had this discussion before.

It has?

It all depends on the fixture and the day of the game. Not many (yourself included

) can make a 5pm departure for Salford away, nor is it worthy of taking annual leave.

I certainly think there's a lot of good will being relied upon this year - although that has been the case for the past 2 or 3 seasons. In fairness the team is still coming up with the goods on an ad-hoc basis (I realise I'm in the minority when it comes to be pleased at winning the CC). Maybe GH is speaking the truth ie we don't have money for signings as well as tying existing players to long contracts? At least (it appears) the club is within its means, one of very few that are. I hope the new format makes the regular season more interesting but have my doubts

Why would the Festive Challenge ticket prices influence your decision to buy a season ticket???

And if you dont like the shirt, dont buy it. It's not written into the season ticket deal that you have to buy one.

Because if the club cared about it's fans more it would reduce ticket prices for meaningless games, encourage more people to come, leading to a better atmosphere and subsequently a more enjoyable match-day experience.

Obviously I don't have to buy the shirt, but am I right in thinking the increase in price is significantly more than the current rate of inflation - or have material prices and wages in China (where the shirts are made) gone up massively? No, I didn't think so.

All I'm saying is that some of us don't like being taken for mugs and that's the impression that I personally have had over the last few seasons, but as you say, each to their own.

.....and incidentally, I'm not on my own, there used to be 6 of us in our group who were all season ticket holders. That was down to two last season and there'll be none next season.

This is my take on things, each to their own, although no offence, fans talking about whether or not they will buy a season ticket because the teams not good enough, the games are boring etc etc winds me right up. If your a fan youre in it for the long haul, rain or shine and lets be fair, the sun has shone on us a fair few times over the last 10 years.

Picking and choosing certain games will never ever come into it for me, season ticket all the way and as many away games as I can fit into a season the better.

1) The squad is the same as last season bar Cuthbertson (up to now, with 3 out and 1 in - and uncertainty surrounding Aiton) [iWere still to announce a signing or signings[/i

2) Home games last year were, by and large, pretty dull. [iAgreed, but I think this is a wider problem and the new format will hopefully change this[/i

3) The new shirt is nothing special and the prices have gone up again (with a name and number you're talking £60+) [iThe new shirt is awful but ill probably still buy it[/i

4) Festive Challenge tickets (and no doubt pre-season friendly tickets) are over-priced. [iIve pretty much stayed away from these for the last few years as its rarely the first team[/i

5) The South Stand beer is both expensive and awful. [iAgreed, but have a load before couple in the ground, headers after, its not too bad[/i

Actually it is getting more expensive to manufacture in China. The Chinese government are in the process of trying to re-invent China as a service and consumer economy. But that's by the by. The value of anything is what the market will pay for it. Sales will judge whether the price point is right.

I am not convinced by the "being taken for mugs" stuff. We all have free will. If people don't like the product but still pay for it then frankly they ARE mugs.

I'm guessing you're new to Leeds Rhinos?

Hence the word maybe

Admittedly not something we're accustomed to with GH.

Amazes me how many people complain about everything from the coach to the kit to the ticket office staff, yet continue to cough up £300 plus each year to buy the product simply because they're "fans" and "fans" are "in it for the long haul".

Bit of news. To the club, you're not a fan. You're a consumer. A unit. Always have been, always will be. Show them loyalty all you like, but you won't get any in return.

Good point well put. My thoughts exactly. Every year I have a bit of a moan about these same issues but when the time comes I still go ahead and buy a season ticket - well not next season I'm not.

Still, could be worse, could be a Salford fan!

The last season ticket I bought (or, more accurately, the old man bought for me) cost £4.

Since then I've always picked and chosen and, barring the occasional disaster, haven't really felt ripped off. And only rarely have I felt as if there was something I'd rather have been doing.

Indeed. I have no problem with people buying a season ticket every year regardless of the on-field product.
I've done it myself for many years. I'd do it now if I could get to anything like enough games to make it worth it. Ditto buying replica shirts.

Once you buy, you're a consumer. Which entitles you to a moan every now and then.

Just recognise your free will in the decision. When you buy a ticket for a rugby match, you are entitled to just that. Not a scintillating attacking performance, or even a win. Be at peace with that and you'll be fine.

No one gives a flying f-ck if you're buying a ST or not. Go moan to someone who cares.

Are you saying that those who buy season tickets are moaning or those that are not are moaning?

It'll be interesting to see how season tickets in general go. I have a feeling that the trend across the board will be down.

There is so much uncertainty over the last seven games (who do you play, when do you play, how does it fit in with holidays etc) As a Wigan fan I've took a chance and will miss the last two weeks due to holidays, but if I were in say a family of four I doubt whether I'd take that risk.

i for one cant wait for February with the new league formula and to see cuthbertson and jps last season giving his all(injuries permitting) sinfield and burrows full preseason and with some great talent being a chance to break through. The end of season run in should through up a few surprises. cant see why all the negativity off season blues

I think, commercially speaking, it might not be a bad idea for clubs to reassess the benefits of a season ticket. Last time I bought one, it didn't make brilliant savings, given that I would inevitably miss a game or two in the summer months. I got one because it made sense at the time to get the outlay done in one go and not pay anything else for home games. I'm not sure how well that rationale works on the market as a whole.

Like you say, the sales will tell us whether the offer is still appealing enough to the customers.

The unfortunate thing for RL teams is that the supply (ie. how many stadiums hold) outstrips demand (ie. people with / considering having season tickets). At the football, there was little question of whether or not I renewed my season ticket - if I did not, my seat was then going to be taken up with someone else and I'd then have to sit somewhere else if / when I decided to go back. Thus I spent 2 years going back and forth between Leeds and Newcastle every other weekend when I was at university here. I stopped going when I spent a year abroad as part of my course - when I came back my seat was naturally no longer available and I then decided to 'pick and choose' from that point.

With the Rhinos, if I don't get a season ticket I know that I can still get a ticket for any game I want and stand in my usual place in the SS. Similarly, if Leeds get to a final I can get a ticket for the event without having to be a season-ticket holder as these won't sell out on season ticket holders / members only as they take place in stadiums far bigger than the usual ones. When I went to the football, part of the reason I renewed those two years where it was inconvenient and expensive looking back - was on the off-chance that if we made any progress in the cups, the only way I would be able to get tickets to those events was through having had a season ticket and accrued 'loyalty points' through attending Cup, European Cup and away games.

If I could have not gotten a season ticket and known I could still get my seat for games as I picked and chose them, I probably would have done so. Tuesday and Wednesday evening round trips in winter to and from Leeds were not ideal so potentially had I been able to somehow not get a season ticket and been able to go when it suited me, it'd have helped. However at the football it was probably more of a discount getting a season ticket - I think I maybe got 19 home games for the price of about 15 had I bought game tickets on an individual basis. Similarly, had we ever done anything in the cups and got to a final, I'd have had no chance ever getting a ticket without my season ticket and going to extra games. There would have been probably like 50,000 or 60,000+ wanting tickets and only about 35,000 available to be sold. I got to see an FA Cup semi-final (thumping) at Cardiff thanks to having perservered with my commutes between Leeds and the north-east that I wouldn't have had I not renewed that year. However, had we made the final and I had not gone to that semi-final or the earlier rounds my chances of getting a final ticket would have been much slimmer as I hadn't 'proved' my loyalty in the earlier cup games.

RL fans can be much more demanding / flaky / able to pick and choose because they actually have a stronger bargaining position than (say) individual football fans - individual football fans (at the top level at least) will much quicker be replaced and forgotten than their RL counterparts.

I always got one so I could have my regular seat

Regarding the 'obligation' on getting tops too, whether or not you actually like them. I have been there and done it. Generally I got them regardless of whether I actually liked them when I was younger - I only didn't get the tops each year if I totally detested them. Generally that rule still applies - I got the 2013 rhinos home top as it was my first year going properly but did not get the pink away one as was not mad keen on it. Last year I got both as I liked them both - I was representing the Rhinos at the NFL game in the away top yesterday - but anytime you are paying good money for something you don't actually like or particularly want you have to ask yourself if you are doing the right thing.

Ok, with some things like a boiler repair, a washing machine or car insurance you don't really have a choice but with a £50 item of clothing that within a year will no longer be 'current' or 'in fashion' you do. With my football tops I went from buying every single one in a ten year period to only getting the home tops, to then only getting the shirts I like to not getting any at all - though this is currently a more political decision on my part.

Instead I have stocked up on a couple of 'retro' shirts from like 15-20 years ago that are already so far out of date so can't then particularly go 'old' after a season after the current ones will.

A reoccurring theme with the guys who say they're questioning/won't buy a ST anymore is that nearly all point out that they've been attending since the 70's/80's and that their own personal group who they would attend with has decreased with friends and family deciding not to attend for several reasons.

I have a friend who only attended her first match two years ago. The several friends she attends with couldn't wait to buy ST for next year and still find the experience of going enjoyable. I have another who attended in the early 00's but hadn't attended a match for around 8 years until this year and they wanted to get back into going so have bought a ST for next year also.

Does strike me that whilst the team has played some frustrating rugby on the pitch the last few years, a decent chunk of the reason why people don't want attend anymore is one born out of just getting old and the repartition of going (just like a long marriage) has lost its spark. Granted a solution to that is for the games to be exciting you more but I dare say if you've been following for so long then there's been quite a few seasons which will have failed to impress. I think when you see reasons such as the shirt design and the price of the Boxing Day friendly been added to the weight of the reasons not to buy a ST I think it shows a mindset where the person has started to look and nitpick for reasons not to go, and in that instance you'd have to say that whilst the team may not be at its strongest at present it also (without trying to offend anyone) shows IMO just a clear cut sign of just getting old and bored.

The friends I mentioned earlier who are buying ST next year, both in their 20's. Some of you on here who started watching in the 80's, whilst it wasn't the best period for Leeds you still talk of it fondly in many ways and the enjoyment of attending. However I bet there was guys back then who had attended for 20/30 years previously and witness some success who started to stop going. It's transition, just because something once meant more or held your interest more doesn't mean it'll have that hold on you forever.