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Full back might be Hardaker`s best position.
But if he is having problems passing to his winger or to anyone infact.
I am not sure what qualities he would bring to FB when joining the line to send a pass out wide to his winger like Webb does.
All we will see his ability to join the line and maybe break a tackle and go through to the try line himself.
There will be many times when the move breaks down due to him not breaking the defensive line.
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Alot of OTT ramblings about Zak's passing ability.
He's very raw with alot of improvement to do. His rise has been quick and he's holding his own. No-one backs Zak more than himself, he's a cocky lad. Alot of these occasions where he doesn't pass comes from confidence to want to stride with the ball and bounce off and carry out these quick feeted breaks he makes look easy.
I'm sure he and the coaching staff are aware and alot of things come down to decision making, knowing when to look etc. The end result of how he will be moulded only time will tell. But he's doing alot right in the here-and now, let's not forget that.
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Spot on Bloodbath.
Also making a pass decision is far harder at centre than at full back, so the comparison isn't valid really.
People have complained about the lack of youngsters being given a shot in the first team, well Hardaker is a youngster being given a shot in the first team. For some bizarre reason people seem to expect him to be a world class centre in his first real season playing there.
We have some very strange fans.
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| Quote ="thebloodbath"Alot of OTT ramblings about Zak's passing ability.
He's very raw with alot of improvement to do. His rise has been quick and he's holding his own. No-one backs Zak more than himself, he's a cocky lad. Alot of these occasions where he doesn't pass comes from confidence to want to stride with the ball and bounce off and carry out these quick feeted breaks he makes look easy.
I'm sure he and the coaching staff are aware and alot of things come down to decision making, knowing when to look etc. The end result of how he will be moulded only time will tell. But he's doing alot right in the here-and now, let's not forget that.'"
Spot on bloodbath.
Just in contrast as we do have the other threads going on about Senior. But up until his injury last season Senior only had 3 assists and 4 tries. Hardacker has 2 assists and 11 tries. I honestly can't see too much what he is doing wrong. |
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| Quote ="Gotcha"Spot on bloodbath.
Just in contrast as we do have the other threads going on about Senior. But up until his injury last season Senior only had 3 assists and 4 tries. Hardacker has 2 assists and 11 tries. I honestly can't see too much what he is doing wrong.'"
Are you looking at a Head-2-Head between Hardaker & Senior over the 2011 Season? |
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| Quote ="BrisbaneRhino"
Part of the reason I raised this whole non-passing thing early in the season was because I can't recall seeing a centre who started off being unable/unwilling to pass developing into a really good winger's centre. Is it lack of ability or is Hardaker perhaps one of those players who simply can't play on the 'wrong' side of the field?'"
Senior wasn't great in this area early on in his career, Atkins has improved out of sight in this area since going to Warrington. Chris Bridge is very good at put his winger away and he only started playing the position a few years ago. Even Chev Walker improved massivly in this area. However I'm not sure McDermott and Lowes are good enough to help Hardaker improve this part of his game. To be fair to Hardaker he seems to be carrying an injury I noticed his hamstring has been strapped for the last few games. He also seems to be naturally left footed/handed so it might be a good idea to move him to left centre where he may find it easier to get on the outside of his man using his left foot step. |
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| Quote ="Charlie Sheen"Senior wasn't great in this area early on in his career, Atkins has improved out of sight in this area since going to Warrington. Chris Bridge is very good at put his winger away and he only started playing the position a few years ago. Even Chev Walker improved massivly in this area. However I'm not sure McDermott and Lowes are good enough to help Hardaker improve this part of his game. To be fair to Hardaker he seems to be carrying an injury I noticed his hamstring has been strapped for the last few games. He also seems to be naturally left footed/handed so it might be a good idea to move him to left centre where he may find it easier to get on the outside of his man using his left foot step.'"
That's why I'm suggesting, maybe, bring Senior in to Mentor him and fill in where needed. |
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| Quote ="Middleton_Loiner"That's why I'm suggesting, maybe, bring Senior in to Mentor him and fill in where needed.'"
Get real. Senior wants the position for himself, not to help some kid do him out of a (non-existent) 2 year contract. |
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| Quote ="Exeter Rhino"Get real. Senior wants the position for himself, not to help some kid do him out of a (non-existent) 2 year contract.'"
Hardaker will be moved to Fullback and Senior will move to Centre. |
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Quote ="Gotcha"Spot on bloodbath.
Just in contrast as we do have the other threads going on about Senior. But up until his injury last season Senior only had 3 assists and 4 tries. Hardacker has 2 assists and 11 tries. I honestly can't see too much what he is doing wrong.'"
I thought you didn't do stats?
The cumulative Hardaker stats on the Stobart site www.superleague.co.uk/player/10800 are wholly inaccurate at present - they're reporting both 11 SL Reg Rd Appearances and 13 SL Reg Rd Appearances next to each other and in any case he's played in all 14 so far this season.
__________
The try and assist counts are accurate - if you believe the Opta assist is ever truely accurate.
His two try assists (if anyone wants to review their quality) came against Widnes in Rd 4 and Castleford in Rd 5. The one at Widnes came after a five metre run out of dummy half and an inside pass to the supporting Burrow to jink over from twenty. In the build up he did actual pass the ball to Hall for Hall to make the initial break. He didn't try and commit defenders, beat a man back on the inside off his predictable left foot step he simply shipped the ball onto Hall who had six or seven metres to work with and made a fifty metre break off of it. Perhaps there is a lesson in that for Hardaker to take on board it's not as if he's got a Tom Bush or even a Francis Cummins stood alongside him. Come on it's Ryan Hall.
At Castleford he gave a quick instinctive pass to the unmarked Hall for a second half walk-in hat-trick try. That would indicate Hardaker can do it but he has held on in fairly identical situations since (one at Hull springs to mind) which is frustrating. |
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Quote ="Gotcha"Spot on bloodbath.
Just in contrast as we do have the other threads going on about Senior. But up until his injury last season Senior only had 3 assists and 4 tries. Hardacker has 2 assists and 11 tries. I honestly can't see too much what he is doing wrong.'"
I thought you didn't do stats?
The cumulative Hardaker stats on the Stobart site www.superleague.co.uk/player/10800 are wholly inaccurate at present - they're reporting both 11 SL Reg Rd Appearances and 13 SL Reg Rd Appearances next to each other and in any case he's played in all 14 so far this season.
__________
The try and assist counts are accurate - if you believe the Opta assist is ever truely accurate.
His two try assists (if anyone wants to review their quality) came against Widnes in Rd 4 and Castleford in Rd 5. The one at Widnes came after a five metre run out of dummy half and an inside pass to the supporting Burrow to jink over from twenty. In the build up he did actual pass the ball to Hall for Hall to make the initial break. He didn't try and commit defenders, beat a man back on the inside off his predictable left foot step he simply shipped the ball onto Hall who had six or seven metres to work with and made a fifty metre break off of it. Perhaps there is a lesson in that for Hardaker to take on board it's not as if he's got a Tom Bush or even a Francis Cummins stood alongside him. Come on it's Ryan Hall.
At Castleford he gave a quick instinctive pass to the unmarked Hall for a second half walk-in hat-trick try. That would indicate Hardaker can do it but he has held on in fairly identical situations since (one at Hull springs to mind) which is frustrating. | |
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Quote ="tvoc"I thought you didn't do stats?
The cumulative Hardaker stats on the Stobart site www.superleague.co.uk/player/10800 are wholly inaccurate at present - they're reporting both 11 SL Reg Rd Appearances and 13 SL Reg Rd Appearances next to each other and in any case he's played in all 14 so far this season.
__________
The try and assist counts are accurate - if you believe the Opta assist is ever truely accurate.
His two try assists (if anyone wants to review their quality) came against Widnes in Rd 4 and Castleford in Rd 5. The one at Widnes came after a five metre run out of dummy half and an inside pass to the supporting Burrow to jink over from twenty. In the build up he did actual pass the ball to Hall for Hall to make the initial break. He didn't try and commit defenders, beat a man back on the inside off his predictable left foot step he simply shipped the ball onto Hall who had six or seven metres to work with and made a fifty metre break off of it. Perhaps there is a lesson in that for Hardaker to take on board it's not as if he's got a Tom Bush or even a Francis Cummins stood alongside him. Come on it's Ryan Hall.
At Castleford he gave a quick instinctive pass to the unmarked Hall for a second half walk-in hat-trick try. That would indicate Hardaker can do it but he has held on in fairly identical situations since (one at Hull springs to mind) which is frustrating.'"
Some stats smack you in the face. In this instance at this moment time, all I am really interested in is have we scored as many tries down our left hand side (centre, winger) at this stage this season in comparison to last season?
If that is so then the major complaints about Hardacker don't stack up fully. Yes, he can improve, but yes he is learing. So as long as we have an improvement on last season then that is fair. As far as I am concerned Hardacker this season, despite any faults, is miles better than the centre we had for the first third of last season. And as Senior is yet another further 12 months older than that, and coming back from a career threatening injury, that is all we have to go on at the moment, not what he did prior to 2010. |
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Quote ="tvoc"I thought you didn't do stats?
The cumulative Hardaker stats on the Stobart site www.superleague.co.uk/player/10800 are wholly inaccurate at present - they're reporting both 11 SL Reg Rd Appearances and 13 SL Reg Rd Appearances next to each other and in any case he's played in all 14 so far this season.
__________
The try and assist counts are accurate - if you believe the Opta assist is ever truely accurate.
His two try assists (if anyone wants to review their quality) came against Widnes in Rd 4 and Castleford in Rd 5. The one at Widnes came after a five metre run out of dummy half and an inside pass to the supporting Burrow to jink over from twenty. In the build up he did actual pass the ball to Hall for Hall to make the initial break. He didn't try and commit defenders, beat a man back on the inside off his predictable left foot step he simply shipped the ball onto Hall who had six or seven metres to work with and made a fifty metre break off of it. Perhaps there is a lesson in that for Hardaker to take on board it's not as if he's got a Tom Bush or even a Francis Cummins stood alongside him. Come on it's Ryan Hall.
At Castleford he gave a quick instinctive pass to the unmarked Hall for a second half walk-in hat-trick try. That would indicate Hardaker can do it but he has held on in fairly identical situations since (one at Hull springs to mind) which is frustrating.'"
Some stats smack you in the face. In this instance at this moment time, all I am really interested in is have we scored as many tries down our left hand side (centre, winger) at this stage this season in comparison to last season?
If that is so then the major complaints about Hardacker don't stack up fully. Yes, he can improve, but yes he is learing. So as long as we have an improvement on last season then that is fair. As far as I am concerned Hardacker this season, despite any faults, is miles better than the centre we had for the first third of last season. And as Senior is yet another further 12 months older than that, and coming back from a career threatening injury, that is all we have to go on at the moment, not what he did prior to 2010. | |
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Quote ="tvoc"I thought you didn't do stats?
The cumulative Hardaker stats on the Stobart site www.superleague.co.uk/player/10800 are wholly inaccurate at present - they're reporting both 11 SL Reg Rd Appearances and 13 SL Reg Rd Appearances next to each other and in any case he's played in all 14 so far this season.
__________
The try and assist counts are accurate - if you believe the Opta assist is ever truely accurate.
His two try assists (if anyone wants to review their quality) came against Widnes in Rd 4 and Castleford in Rd 5. The one at Widnes came after a five metre run out of dummy half and an inside pass to the supporting Burrow to jink over from twenty. In the build up he did actual pass the ball to Hall for Hall to make the initial break. He didn't try and commit defenders, beat a man back on the inside off his predictable left foot step he simply shipped the ball onto Hall who had six or seven metres to work with and made a fifty metre break off of it. Perhaps there is a lesson in that for Hardaker to take on board it's not as if he's got a Tom Bush or even a Francis Cummins stood alongside him. Come on it's Ryan Hall.
At Castleford he gave a quick instinctive pass to the unmarked Hall for a second half walk-in hat-trick try. That would indicate Hardaker can do it but he has held on in fairly identical situations since (one at Hull springs to mind) which is frustrating.'"
Totally agree TVOC my Lad.
Trying to compare Hardaker and Senior at this point in time, is like comparing Chalk and Cheese. |
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Quote ="tvoc"I thought you didn't do stats?
The cumulative Hardaker stats on the Stobart site www.superleague.co.uk/player/10800 are wholly inaccurate at present - they're reporting both 11 SL Reg Rd Appearances and 13 SL Reg Rd Appearances next to each other and in any case he's played in all 14 so far this season.
__________
The try and assist counts are accurate - if you believe the Opta assist is ever truely accurate.
His two try assists (if anyone wants to review their quality) came against Widnes in Rd 4 and Castleford in Rd 5. The one at Widnes came after a five metre run out of dummy half and an inside pass to the supporting Burrow to jink over from twenty. In the build up he did actual pass the ball to Hall for Hall to make the initial break. He didn't try and commit defenders, beat a man back on the inside off his predictable left foot step he simply shipped the ball onto Hall who had six or seven metres to work with and made a fifty metre break off of it. Perhaps there is a lesson in that for Hardaker to take on board it's not as if he's got a Tom Bush or even a Francis Cummins stood alongside him. Come on it's Ryan Hall.
At Castleford he gave a quick instinctive pass to the unmarked Hall for a second half walk-in hat-trick try. That would indicate Hardaker can do it but he has held on in fairly identical situations since (one at Hull springs to mind) which is frustrating.'"
Totally agree TVOC my Lad.
Trying to compare Hardaker and Senior at this point in time, is like comparing Chalk and Cheese. | |
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| Quote ="Gotcha"Some stats smack you in the face. In this instance at this moment time, all I am really interested in is have we scored as many tries down our left hand side (centre, winger) at this stage this season in comparison to last season?'"
So Counting the Tries Senior scored in 2011 and Hardaker has scored in 2012 is all you're interested in? How about the amount of Tries Senior put Hall in for compared to Hardaker?
Quote ="Gotcha"If that is so then the major complaints about Hardacker don't stack up fully. Yes, he can improve, but yes he is learing. So as long as we have an improvement on last season then that is fair. As far as I am concerned Hardacker this season, despite any faults, is miles better than the centre we had for the first third of last season. And as Senior is yet another further 12 months older than that, and coming back from a career threatening injury, that is all we have to go on at the moment, not what he did prior to 2010.'"
Hardaker isn't a good Left Centre, just accept it. And both Peacock and McGuire have come back from the same injury. I believe they are still playing for us, or did I miss something? |
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| Quote ="Middleton_Loiner"So Counting the Tries Senior scored in 2011 and Hardaker has scored in 2012 is all you're interested in? How about the amount of Tries Senior put Hall in for compared to Hardaker?'"
Take your head out of your arris and read it again, and you will see I said nothing of the sort.
I said down our left channell, i.e. Centre =#FF0000and winger. That is the comparison, as it would include these many fantasy assists you appear to believe Senior did last season. |
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| Quote ="Middleton_Loiner"So Counting the Tries Senior scored in 2011 and Hardaker has scored in 2012 is all you're interested in? How about the amount of Tries Senior put Hall in for compared to Hardaker?
Hardaker isn't a good Left Centre, just accept it. And both Peacock and McGuire have come back from the same injury. I believe they are still playing for us, or did I miss something?'"
One is a prop where loss of speed is less of an issue and the other is 5/6 years younger and has noticeably slowed down since his injury - or did I miss something? |
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| Quote ="Gotcha"Take your head out of your arris and read it again, and you will see I said nothing of the sort.
I said down our left channell, i.e. Centre =#FF0000and winger. That is the comparison, as it would include these many fantasy assists you appear to believe Senior did last season.'"
Senior = Better Centre than Hardaker.
Anything else is your Fantasy. |
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| Quote ="Middleton_Loiner"Senior = Better Centre than Hardaker.
Anything else is your Fantasy.'"
But yet I take it you agree that the team down that left hand side has scored more tries this season than it did to the same point last season?
It doesn't even come down to the tries Hardacker has scored, as Hall has actually scored more this season so far than last season.
And this was all before Seniors injury. People need to wake up and realise we are in 2012, and that we have a damn good player on our books in Hardacker. |
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| Quote ="Gotcha"But yet I take it you agree that the team down that left hand side has scored more tries this season than it did to the same point last season?'"
Could you point us to the Stats for this Claim?
Quote ="Gotcha"It doesn't even come down to the tries Hardacker has scored, as Hall has actually scored more this season so far than last season.'"
Could you point us to the Stats for this Claim?
Quote ="Gotcha"And this was all before Seniors injury. People need to wake up and realise we are in 2012, and that we have a damn good player on our books in Hardacker.'"
Etc |
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ML are you Keith Senior's mum or something? Your fascination with him is unhealthy unless you are either a) his agent, or b) a relative.
Senior has been a great player for Leeds, but has been on a downward spiral for many years prior to his injury. Hardaker on the other hand is a 20 year old kid playing his first season at Left Centre for a club with great expectations of our players. You seem to have decided that Zak can't ever make a decent Left Centre (you must be some sort of uber coach) and that a 36 year old player who has been in decline for at least 5 years and is coming back from a vey serious injury would be a better prospect. Any comparison to another player of similar age, or those who have had a similar injury are irrelevant as they take no notice of Senior's decline over the previous period. He is no longer the player who in 2004 swept all before him.
I'll have a pint of whatever you've been drinking because clearly it's strong stuff...
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| Quote ="Middleton_Loiner"Could you point us to the Stats for this Claim?
Could you point us to the Stats for this Claim?
Etc'"
That actually makes sense. you made nonsensical claims without even having the stats in front of you to back up your claims. 
Look at the tries scored for Hall and Senior for the same number of games last season, then do them same for Hall and Hardacker this season. That's all it takes.
Then when you have the two numbers, look at the one at the side of Hall's name. Bingo.
Yes, Hardacker could have passed to his winger more. But this side isn't all about Ryan Hall, it's a team game. And as long as we are improving which stats show we are from last season, then that is a great start. |
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"One is a prop where loss of speed is less of an issue'"
What about loss of impact and loss of metres gained?
Quote ="Sal Paradise"the other is 5/6 years younger and has noticeably slowed down since his injury - or did I miss something?'"
Still one of very few creative players in the team who score 4 tries VERY recently.
Are you making things up to support your dislike for Big Keith or am I missing something? |
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| Quote ="Middleton_Loiner"What about loss of impact and loss of metres gained?
Still one of very few creative players in the team who score 4 tries VERY recently.
Are you making things up to support your dislike for Big Keith or am I missing something?'"
Your point was about how the players who have had the operation have been affected by it and why should Senior not be equally unaffected. My point was illustrating why it would have less impact on a prop - although his mobility in defence is not what it was and what impact it has had on the other.
I personally think Keith was passed his best in 2010 and by 2011 it was pitiful to see a once great player playing at the standard he was.
To create the correct ethos at a club sometimes you have show that no player can go on forever and that opportunities are available for younger players. |
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| International Star | 1309 | No
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| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Aug 2011 | 13 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jun 2021 | Jun 2021 | LINK |
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"Your point was about how the players who have had the operation have been affected by it and why should Senior not be equally unaffected. My point was illustrating why it would have less impact on a prop - although his mobility in defence is not what it was and what impact it has had on the other.
I personally think Keith was passed his best in 2010 and by 2011 it was pitiful to see a once great player playing at the standard he was.
To create the correct ethos at a club sometimes you have show that no player can go on forever and that opportunities are available for younger players.'"
Just because they are younger, doesn't make them better. Just my Opinion of course. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 1309 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Aug 2011 | 13 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jun 2021 | Jun 2021 | LINK |
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Yeah Hardaker Awesome in Defense. Senior is Cr@p.
Oh. Wait a minute?
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 1309 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Aug 2011 | 13 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jun 2021 | Jun 2021 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
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TO BE FIXED |
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| Quote ="Middleton_Loiner"Yeah Hardaker Awesome in Defense. Senior is Cr@p.
Oh. Wait a minute?'"
I thought Hardaker was a Defensive Centre, not a "Turnstile"? #BOSH |
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