After every loss, we might as well rename every thread on southstander 'throwing the baby out with the bathwater'. Strange how this didn't happen after we beat Wigan a few weeks ago.

All those years of success have made Leeds fans some of the most fickle fans in SL. Pre-2004, we didn't expect success, but good players weren't routinely bagged in the manner we've become accustomed to now after a defeat.

I wonder how long after the season is over we’ll be getting the email from Gawry. In light of the number of emails he’s sent trying to raise morale (and funds) over the last 7 years he’s probably run out of material. Maybe it’s time for a ghostwriter ? Step forward Jamie Jones Buchanan. There will be no mention of over rated underperforming Australians, powder puff 5 minute props or half backs that can’t even kick a rugby ball properly. There will be “overcoming adversity” , “climbing mountains together”, believe in the process” and biblical references to the second coming of Brad Dwyer. As if hypnotised we will throw our money ( no cheques or cash please) at the board for Gawry to squander as he feels best. I am sure there’s a phoenix waiting to rise from the ashes somewhere, I’m just not sure it’s in Leeds 6.

According to you there isn't a player in the squad that is the problem. If that is the case why are we in the situation we are.

Given we don't know his salary details we cannot comment on his value for money. All you can say is that none of them are of the required standard if you want to be challenging the top 3/4 sides. His attempt at a tackle for the first Wigan try was embarrassing.

So your strategy would be get rid of all the props (all contracted) and somehow source 4 better quality replacements in a market where decent props are at a premium? Personally I think that’s an impossible ask in the context of the salary cap.

This simply doesn’t make sense does it. I’ve literally said he’s been carrying the pack, now what do you think that means. Is it

A. I think that our pack isn’t a problem and everything is fine?

B. I clearly think our pack is an issue which is why I mentioned someone is carrying them on his own?

He has not carried them on his own though has he .

He has had 2 pretty ordinary seasons .

The sad thing though is he is still our best prop which says it all

Mik os fine as a first 17 prop.
His form hasn't been great this year or so but who in the squad has?

Sam Lisone IMO is better value than big Mick.

He needs to sort out his conditioning though hopefully BA can get him lean.

There’s two things wrong with that statement, firstly Mik is many times the player Sam is, and secondly, we have no idea what they get paid.

Bet Sam’s not on what Micks on and when was the last time Mick made a break or burst a tackle or even got aggressive with an opponent.

And when was the last time Sam did not have his hands on his hips sucking in air after 5 minutes

According to stats

Avg gain /carries
SL 8.06 / 184
MO 8.23 / 262

Clean Breaks
SL 2
MO 3

Metres / tackle busts
SL 1483 /66
MO 2156 /47


Tackles / missed tackles
SL 320 /38
MO 545 /49


Games played
SL 22
MO 20

Also suprised Mik is only 25 and lisone 30 years old

Message to self Don’t upset the Big Mick fanboys,

You might consider me a fanboy, I was the one who picked up on your comment. I’m not a fanboy, in fact I think Mik hasn’t kicked on from his early promise, but equally I think he’s the best prop we have, in fact the only genuine prop that is regularly fit. I’d like us to sign two that are better than him, then we are heading in the right direction in the pack.

Hit the nail on the head there. I don't think anybody is suggesting that Mik (who is two or three years off his prime) is an international class prop yet. He is simply easily the best prop at Headingley. The only time he's ever had a decent battery of props around him was very briefly with Ava and Prior, and he prospered then. He needs another couple of experienced, quality front rowers sharing the load and with any luck he might start to thrive again.

Ava and Prior ???? Not sure about that Arthur. I do know Leeds Rhinos took many years off Matt Priors life the way they absolutely flogged him to death. They were negligent towards his well-being and he was rendered totally ineffective at times with the amount of minutes they made him play. Hetherington and the management should be ashamed of themselves the way they treated him.

Check the teamsheet for the 2020 Cup final, old fruit. They played 8, 10, and 13 respectively. No coincidence that they also trampled over Wigan in the semi. We briefly had a decent set of middle forwards. I realise and recognise that GH has made mistakes in recent times, but accusing him of taking years off a man's life seems a wee bit hysterical, not to mention libelous.

Don’t think you quite get me Arthur, take me with a pinch of salt. Obviously they didn’t take years off his life, but he was flogged to death. He played mostly at prop and he never once bust a tackle or put a defender on his backside in his years at Leeds. He played far too many minutes because we didn’t have the required quality props to relieve him. Typical Hetherington, signing back rowers like Bodene Thomson and Donaldson and trying to play them as props. Cheapskate.

Yes just checked the team sheet for he 2022 final Arthur. Donaldson, Walter’s and Bodene Thomson as interchange props. All second rowers, scary men.

ININOUTOUT
So what's your point? I was saying we had two good props alongside Oledski in 2020. Your now talking about 22. Ava was long gone, Prior was 33 or 34, Tetavano was well, Tetavano. Two different teams.

You brought up 2022 not me. Don’t know what you were trying to prove by highlighting the fact that Hetherington’s interchange props for a Grand Final were all second rowers. My point is Ava was a prop sized prop and I don’t think Prior was an orthodox body shape for a prop and was just used to play big minutes without the real impact of a prop. He never broke a tackle, struggled to get us off our line and didn’t damage opposition players. He played big minutes and was involved in lots of tackles, but his impact was reduced because for me he wasn’t an orthodox prop. The only player with the body shape of an orthodox prop in that squad was Ava. That’s my point, Mik wasn’t playing alongside two decent props, he was playing alongside Ava and Prior who did okay considering he wasn’t a traditional prop.