just because players decide to turn down more lucrative offers elsewhere doesn't mean they are on peanuts HTH

Love it, it's now austerity's fault that Leeds have dominated SL for the last 13 years.

Which lucrative offers were those then?

Bet they weren't from another top SL club.

There isn't a transfer market between the top SL clubs as I've already highlighted.

It's dead. It's been crushed by Salary Cap enforced austerity.

The supreme irony of course is that Leeds success over the past decade is primarily a consequence of the salary cap as they've been able to hang on to their players for just a few bob. They may well require the salary cap to be increased substantially or scrapped altogether in order to fill those huge talentless gaps in the squad and get back on track.

Bottom of the barrel now William, i expected better from you.

Didn't think you could provide evidence of those lucrative offers Leeds players turned down, or those super salaries you allege they've all been earning at Leeds.

I understand, I really do.

Forget what Sinfield, Peacock and McGuire opined in those links above.

You'll trade the possibility of a better quality competition employing some actual star players for salary cap enforced mediocrity any day of the week provided Leeds continue to pick up some silverware as a consequence.

One-club supporting mentality at the expense of the game as a whole defines the sport.

Can't be bothered William, but i do know if the likes of Charnley and Sarginson can get their agents to find theM RU and NRL clubs then the majority of the Leeds squad over the past decade could.

Maybe they were on excellent money AND enjoyed playing form the club, just a crazy thought i'm putting out there.

The bitterness is strong in this one

"I've never attended a fans forum but I'd like to ask Ian Lenegan why Leeds can keep hold of the likes of Hall, Watkins and Hardaker while we continually lose so many players. If they'd come through the Wigan system no doubt they'd all be in the NRL by now."

Taken from a poster on the Wigan forum William. It is Really strange how Leeds keep hold of ALL their players on sod all, and the Wigan players are leaving every season.Maybe GH has something over them we don't know about?

Most seem to agree that the current standard of Rugby League in this country is at perhaps its lowest level of quality. The game here badly lacks big star names and those few that we have are gradually being tempted away as for some time now we have been unable to compete financially with the NRL and Union. Charnley and Sarginson are the latest defectors.

IMO we have to raise the salary cap with perhaps more encouragement for the marquee idea which should be used more often. There is a dire need for more sponsorship money into the game both at RFL and club levels. When the current Sky deal comes to an end (2016?) we should be talking to the BBC, BT sports and ITV as well as Sky to negotiate a better deal. We still have the advantage for part of the year of being a summer sport. We would have a big problem if Union were to move to the summer.

Having said that we are in something of a catch 22 situation because to bring more money into our game we have to offer a better product that we currently do yet to improve our game we need extra funds!

Some have argued that the SL and therefore the SC has saved clubs from ruin because of the perilous financial state of the game before SL. Whereas this has some truth, I would argue that it was more likely the Sky money that saved us rather than the SL and the SC.

Since the original Sky deal Rugby Union has dramatically progressed as a professional sport and now attracts the BBC, ITV, BT Sport and Sky to fight over the TV rights. They get almost as much as SL just for the England international matches.

One thing we could do to improve the spectacle at no cost would be to revisit the way the game is being refereed. This will need some changes to the laws for example to stop the nonsense of the so called "wrestle" at the breakdown which slows down the game to an unacceptable level - even Union is faster now at the breakdown.

As Sarginson/Wigan have said that money has had nothing to do with his long held desire to play in the NRL I'm not sure allowing clubs to run up a wage bill only covered by the largess of wealthy benefactors is any sort of long term solution either. Pretty soon Wayne Bennett will be able to select a starting England team from the NRL comp and that IMO will be no bad thing for our chances.

Hasn’t the NRL salary cap shot up in the past 2-3 years almost doubling what we offer in SL now? Whilst that’s happened there has been quite an exodus of the best British talent.

I’d suggest that if that disparity had been the case from 2004 onwards Leeds would’ve lost more players to the NRL.

Heard an interview with Bennett and he seems to put all the England players in 2 camps (an NRL playing English player and a none NRL English player). He also said he trusts the NRL ones and the Super League ones have to be looked at to see if good enough. His ideology, rightly or wrongly, is clear to see.

As expected.

In all honesty though, i can't think of anyone right now in the NRL who is english who at least wouldn't make the squad on merit.Sam Burgess and the twins are certainties. Hodgson has been great so will get in probably as starter.Widdop i think is over rated personally but will get in, Cooper doing well good squad man. Reed probably best centre we have right now with Watkins out of form, Whitehead improving all the time and figured well last series.

Only doubt is Joe Burgess due to lack of game time. Like Tvoc said, several of our top stars playing NRL certainly won't harm our chances on the international stage.

No Bullseye, that can't have been a possibility under any circumstances because Leeds players are motivated primarily by loyalty. They play for the love of the club, a guarantee of silverware and, according to Biff Tannen, very decent salaries indeed whilst the esteemed CEO still manages to operate a parsimonious salary cap with plenty of wriggle room for further signings if and when required. It's the best run club ever and no player ever wants to leave.

Please don't indulge in destroying that myth.

Meanwhile in the real world of salary capped austerity, there is no player movement and no transfer activity whatsoever between the top SL clubs since 2005/06.

Bennett did the same when mentoring Kearney and the Kiwis prior to, and during the entirety of the RLWC08. The only non-NRL Kiwi based in SL who secured a place in their World Cup squad was Thomas Leuluai IIRC.

I'd be surprised if Bennett didn't select every NRL-based English player available to him first and foremost, prior to checking out and selecting SL-based players on the basis of damage limitation criteria.

Since the economic downturn clubs have been even less likely to raise the cap. That seems to be continuing until some miracle occurs when SL clubs suddenly have money to spend.

This is already having an influence on SL and will be even worse in a few years when we reap the disadvantages of downsizing junior development and putting 19 years olds on the scrapheap.

The problem is a lack of money in the game. Don't ask me where it comes from. We got bailed out in 95 but it won't happen again.

First of all, i don't know what anyone at the club is paid, neither do you, neither does anybody else on this forum. But if you think the likes of McGuire, Sinfield, Hall, Peacock, Burrow, Watkins, Hardaker and other established internationals have all stayed at and continue to stay at Leeds for as you put it 'sod all' then it is you who are living cuckoo land. I suppose Ferres chose the chicken feed GH offered him over the big, easy money he could have earned at Salford or Hull or whoever else too. Yes, i do believe the club culture thing would be a factor but not that big i wouldn't try make it out to be but it is there the players have stated that themselves.And if the gap between what they were/are earning was so big between other top earners and them in the league, i'm sure there would have been a few moving for more money they would be daft not to, its a short career.

Secondly, i have stated before on here down the years i wouldn't mind or begrudge any of our top players taking up the challenge of NRL.For me, Watkins should if he wants to reach his full potential but it looks like he never will now.Same went for Hall and even Hardaker. I really have no club agenda whatsoever and do want SL to thrive and our international game.I just think your pathetic dismissal of Leeds' achievements over the last decade come across as desperate, as if this is your chance to stick the boot in after all those years of being put in back in your Box after Leeds continual season turnarounds, i see you are hedging your bets this year by stating elsewhere we will still make the top 4, Don't worry William i think like Wire this year is finally your year

it amazes me the cognitive dissonance that accepts this league has a problem in terms of profile and quality, yet one that readily accepts and in some cases supports its best players moving to RU or the NRL.

Our problems in terms of quality and profile are almost entirely down to the increase in quality of player leaving, and the decrease in quality of the players coming in.


Saying that, i think the idea that a significant amount of Leeds spine would have gone elsewhere in SL if we didnt have a cap would be pretty unlikely

I don't have a problem with players who choose to leave SL and play in the NRL - they crucially remain available for England/GB selection while doing so. Josh Hodgson (an average SL player, IMO) leads the count in the Dally M after the opening four rounds and to hear the Australian media (via Premier Sports) discussing who is currently the best forward in the world and it boiling down to a choice between Sam Burgess and James Graham simply would not have happened otherwise. They were good players in SL (without needing to be 100% of the time) but just like Morley and Ellis before them they have made their mark on the game and gained recognition not on offer to players who (if given the opportunity) opt to stay in SL.

GB last won an Ashes series in 1970 and I was fortunate to be around back then to hear about it - another one would be nice but without access to the NRL it's only seemingley going to get further away. New Zealand became a credible force (and better than that won things) on the International stage through access to the NRL.

How and whether the RFL and SL are able to capitalise on a credible International side (should one emerge capable of defeating the Aussies and Kiwis) is doubtful but that's always been the case.

Any player who leaves for RU's gold is of no interest to me.

Josh Hodgson has improved out of sight in the NRL, because he's had the right attitude to take advantage of the coaching and development there. There was an interview pre-season with him about Elliott Whitehead and all the things he'd have to do to succeed in the NRL that laid bare the differences in training and preparation between the two leagues. Some (Hodgson, Cooper) seem to thrive on it, some (Scott Moore, Sam Tomkins) don't.

Burgess and Graham meanwhile would be among the top players in the world whichever league they were playing in, and they were when they were in SL. It's less and less likely that players like that will stay in SL though. Will be interesting to see what Alex Walmsley and Chris Hill do over the next few years if they're passed over for IMO less able players T.Burgess and Cooper for international selection.

do you long for us signing an endless stream of players as in the post john Holmes apocalypse and winning absolutely naff all for 15 years. Gb still could not beat the Aussies and the game was effectively broke. There was a lot more money for players back then, I know a guy who signed at Wigan as a kid for £50k over 20 years ago. Now in the academy system they get a tracksuit.
when taking inflation into account there is less money going to players now. The key is growing the game and getting bigger sponsors in etc etc. the salary cap came into save the game. There is not the coin in the sport to compete with NRL dollar for dollar

Agreed but would there have been any acknowledgement from the Aussies had they remained in SL nevermind the media discussing which was the current best forward in the game. I don't think there would have been and I can understand why.



It will. Think Walmsley might be found wanting, one decent shot he took from the Roosters and he disappeared from the fray. The tackle that Inu was sin-binned for and subsequently banned for over here the other week was replicated in two NRL games in round 4, neither even attracted a penalty and at least one made it onto the NRL Fulltime highlight package.

It will be interesting if Bennett follows McNamara's lead and we see some more NRL players suddenly turn up their granddad's birth certificate to play for England.

It'd be nice if Milford or Mbye find out they've got roots in Whitehaven.

We'll never know, though if the salary cap hadn't been in force for the past decade and beyond, there would have been a transfer market between the top SL clubs. Under such circumstances, it's entirely possible that Tony Smith for example (armed with a wad of cash from Simon Moran) may have made the likes of Sinfield and McGuire offers they could not refuse.