Just noticed if I am right that there are 'only' 12 Championship Reserve teams they are:-

Barrow
Sheffield
Leigh
Doncaster
Whitehaven
Featherstone
Widnes

Oldham
Keighley
York
Hunslet
Dewsbury

The top section are all Championship teams and the bottom section Championship 1 teams.
So it begs the question why other clubs in our league have decided to not have a Reserve team (Toulouse obviously as it is too far away to justify one - is it the same with the Catalans? - if so its another reason why the French clubs are an ill thought out idea from the RFL).
Plus is it any benefit playing the Reserve teams from the Championship 1 clubs (no offence meant to them but)?
I know not having a reserve team means no game time for fringe players is a problem but what do you gain from no offence playing Hunslet Reserves?
I know in the longer term we need a Reserve team but I think that its probably best not to have one this and possibly next year?

exactly.

the standard was awful. even the fringe players getting game time wasn't enough of a reason, as the game time they were getting was not of a reasonable enough quality.

our reserves have produced nothing recently of note, bar a trophy.

So they didnt keep the rest of the squad match fit? How are the fringe players in the middle of the season going to stay match fit? Will they stay at the club?

My main issue is that if our first choices stay fit, how are the rest going to keep match fit and play themselves into the first choice place, without being able to demonstrate to the coaching team that they are better than our first choices.

We could end up loaning players out, or worse still loosing players who get fed up of not playing and then when injury does hit we have no suitable replacement.

I understand the financial savings from not running a second team, but I do think it is dangerours.

The decision to stop running a reserve team is the first phase in a long-term restructuring plan that began with the creation of a scholarship scheme, which now has 25 players enrolled.

Those players will form a junior academy side next season, which in turn will develop into a senior academy side. This is costing the club in excess of £50,000 per year, and is seen as an investment in the future. To find that money, the old reserve team had to be sacrificed.

The aim is to offer talented Calderdale players a pathway to first-team rugby with their home-town team whilst receiving an education at the same time. In the meantime any players deemed good enough will be promoted to the first team squad - such as Anthony Bowman and Graham Charlesworth this season.

This is being done partly with an eye on the next round of Super League licenses in 2012. Clubs must produce a certain number of home-grown players. This restructuring will help us achieve that, and eventually stop Super League clubs luring young players out of Calderdale.

Hope this finally makes things clear!

What competition are they going to play in ? , as there isn't a junior academy comp at NL/Championship level

Are you hoping to enter the SL academy comp ?

Yer did I read it somewhere that you will have to have 8 'home grown' players in your squad by 2011?
Thats going to be hard for the 'expansion clubs' and some 'lazy' SL clubs me thinks???
Good idea though as long as they police it and don't allow 'fiddles' or exceptions.
Come on if the game wants to expand as it says then they should make the expansion clubs follow the same rules to get players in London, Wales and elsewhere!
Otherwise whats the point in 'expanding' the game?

I had read this earlier and I do understand the long term decision and how it will develop talented younger players from the area (if they are not poached into SL clubs), but this doesnt address the issue about where the players who are not picked play to keep their match fitness.

The two players mentioned are fine examples. If Charlesworth and Bowman do not get picked for the first team for, say 10 weeks, where do they play to keep match fitness and demonstrate to Calland that they should be picked.

This still doesn't answer Spanishbob's question. How are the likes of the Bowmans, Charlesworth and the other fringe players going to get any game time?

Wonder if we're going to be the first RL club to introduce a Chelsea like squad rotation policy.

No Pete, Whitehaven did the very same thing against York last week, midweek and got slaughtered 36-6 with their coach Ged Stokes getting some stick over issues regarding his non-selection of certain players who work at Sellafield, the midweek travel to York etc etc.
Now, York got 3 group points for the win but then lost at Batley the following sunday but gained a valuable "bonus point" in that loss.
'Haven on the other hand got zero for their midweek trouncing but three points for their derby win at the weekend.
Is this squad rotation, or is it paying a dis-respect to a cup match ?
The reason I ask is that York are currently in the play-off position on seven poins and 'Haven are not in the play-off positions on six points. I know where I'd rather be......


I see nothing wrong with our fringe players being "loaned out" to clubs in championship div 1 with a similar "call-back" arrangements that the SL clubs have imposed on our loanees, for the sake of the lads getting some game time. The SL clubs have started this gobbling up players, just look at Scott Moore on another season long loan out, he was on a similar thing last season, who does the lad belong to ? It's a ridiculous situation really.

Quote ="Caliban"This still doesn't answer Spanishbob's question. How are the likes of the Bowmans, Charlesworth and the other fringe players going to get any game time? Wonder if we're going to be the first RL club to introduce a Chelsea like squad rotation policy.'" Here is what MC said in the season preview [i "In terms of players getting game time, I am hoping we might be able to link up with a Championship One club."[/i editorial.jpress.co.uk/4956160/Page%203.pdf Sounds an ideal way of keeping the fringe players fit & playing at a higher standard than resever grade.

Quote ="Caliban"This still doesn't answer Spanishbob's question. How are the likes of the Bowmans, Charlesworth and the other fringe players going to get any game time? Wonder if we're going to be the first RL club to introduce a Chelsea like squad rotation policy.'" Here is what MC said in the season preview [i "In terms of players getting game time, I am hoping we might be able to link up with a Championship One club."[/i editorial.jpress.co.uk/4956160/Page%203.pdf Sounds an ideal way of keeping the fringe players fit & playing at a higher standard than resever grade.

Still not sure where this ' junior academy ' is going to play next year

Sometimes you have to take a step back to be able to move forward. I think the club have done the right thing and somebody was going to be effected, whenever it happened.

Loaning the ones who we want to get game time under their belts, is one way of doing it.

But where is this junior academy going to play ?

Not at the Shay, too much of a risk to the pitch

How are you going to find and develop 8 home grown players by 2011, if your junior academy is only going to start in 2010? Widnes have still got players trying to break into the 1st team that were in the junior academy back in 2005. I very much doubt that Halifax can go from no academy or reserve team in 2009 to ticking youth development boxes for a licence in 2011.

Also as Starbug has said, if the RFL don't accept Halifax's application to play in the official u18's, wont the standard of competition be quite low if you are forced into playing in an amatuer league? You could end up back where you started where you are unhappy at the youth develpoment because of the standard of the league. May as well just stuck with the u21's.

Am i right in saying a couple of teams (Barrow) cancelled games late on last year and it turned in to a farce where the standards were poor and games becoming a joke? If the RFL organized the comp properly and put us in where we belong then it would be OK. But the U21s was wrongly kicked out of the top League despite beating the likes of Wigan , St.Helens, Leeds, Cas etc

Haley, Penky, Andy Bowmen, Charlesworth came through the Fax academy and Anthony Bowman is 16. So I guess a minimum of 4 are needed

Not really what I was getting at

We had much the same but still got refused entry a few years ago

The only comp worth entering outside the SL academy is the national youth league which is now used by some NL/Championship clubs as a development comp

Siddal would be the nearest to you , we have Leigh Miners and East both participating

It is without doubt very difficult to run any creditable junior development outside SL as the option of picking up SL clubs cast offs is very tempting

Thats the problem again with the RFL-SL clubs are treated like kings and the likes of fax, Leigh, Widnes who all have/had good academy´s were treated like crap.Because of this Fax have lost out on a number of juniors who have signed at Bradford, Huddersfield and Salford. I suspect Leigh and Widnes have similar stories. The U21s/Reserves is a joke and needs sorting. So is the U18s and no wonder the English National team struggles as the right structure is not in place at Youth and academy levels let alone first grade. Many clubs facilities are simply crap but who cares things are rosy at SL level

I'm with Der Kaiser on this one big time.
No offence to the Widnes poster & Starbug, I sort of understand where they're coming from, but would like to genuinely ask them both how many of their kids have developed into first grade from last season's reserves ?
I'm not thumbing my nose at anyone by that, but the SL clubs are wanting us to act as feeder clubs for them for a damned good reason. How many Fev kids have come through their system ?
There's a common theme developing here and we're all close neighbours geographically of current SL clubs, that's a box that we can't possibly "tick".
Is there any point in running a reserves side at the moment, Leigh & Widnes, I look forward to your positive responses.

I agree with you to a certain extent - not that many players end up coming thorugh to be good enough for 1st team. If you're outside SL, however and you want to apply for a licence, you need the youth set up in place.

Whether Widnes have 8 home grown players who are good enough for 1st team or not is a debateable point, but if push comes to shove, Widnes can always call on the u18's and u21's if required and tick a few licence boxes at the same time. They do cost a lot of money and the only real top class player to come through at Widnes recently was Richard Myler who we lost when we went bust. In the past few seasons very few players have come through and exelled - it all looks good on paper though.

As far as the RFL pushing all clubs to produce players yes it is not for our [NL/Championship clubs benifit , but will be for the benifit of the SL clubs and ultimatley the national squads

Is it really a benefit bringing Kids through who clearly have not been taught the basics and then thrown in at SL and even international level? The Clubs are not producing players at all in SL-Look at Bradford, Wigan, Hull KR, Warrington, Wakey and see how many foreigners they have and how many first teamers they have who are from their academy. It was another lie the SL clubs told about being unable to bring through academy players due to fear of relegation. Thats gone and has anything changed? NO!!

If the RFL were serious about changing the state of the game Internationally then they would sort out a Proper meaningful Competition for the U18s and U21s with Promotion and Relegation. They would also make clubs invest in proper training facilities for academy players rather than waste it on Some Aussies. Most academy players are not as good as they think and are rarely tested to prove themselves like in Australia. SL is a joke with Leeds and St.Helens usually streets ahead of the rest come the end of the season

Gold Coast Titans are spending 30 Million Dollars on a State of the Art Training Centre yet I doubt the whole of the SL clubs have spent that in the past 5 years on training facilities. Its OK having an academy but it needs to fill a purpose. That purpose must be to bring youngsters through for your first team. But then they need proper training and facilities to achieve this. This is not happening in the UK at all. The young players at Leigh are not SL level and likely never will be except the odd rare exception. Thats often down to the training facilities, The Coaching staff spending around 6 hours a week not 40 hours with them. Most of the top Youngsters do well at Academy level, but simply are out of their depth at SL. Mainly again due to poor facilities, Having no real competition to test themselves week in week out at their Age level and often thinking they are better than what they are. SL Clubs are only interested in themselves. They have no interest in the National team.

My personal opinion is the whole Youth sector from Amateur Under 6s through to Professional Academy needs a major overhaul. Training facilities need to improve at amateur and professional level. Coaching standards need to improve especially at Regional and National level. All games need to have a meaning. Creative Skills need to be enhanced-look at how many Aussies/Kiwis are at 6,7,9 and 13 in SL! Defence needs to be worked on alot more. Training an academy a couple of evenings a week in poor facilities is doing little. Either do it properly or do not bother.

Exactly what needs to happen DK. Well put. But, will it happen when stevo likes to say "this years super league will be the best ever" ? The RFL philosophy is, if it looks shiny on top no one notices the cracks inderneath. For all this to happen the game needs a change in philosophy and the licence criteria to be applied firmly and consistently.

We all know this won't happen