Quote ="Mintball"...I've also posted this one too (don't know ho long it will stay up) on [iTelegraph[/i collusion with private healthcare companies etc: skwalker1964.wordpress.com/2012/ ... -colludes/'" I had stupidly wondered what Hunt was up to until Cod'ead reminded me on this forum that the Minister now has no responsibility for the provision of the NHS. He is now in the position where he can tell the NHS "Do it this way" but when that fails, it's not his fault, it's the NHS's. He can now just sit back and snipe at whatever failings he perceives (or wants the public to perceive) in the NHS and no-one can ask him what he's going to do about it, he remains blame-proof. The purpose is now obvious, keep criticising and pointing the finger and, eventually, the public might believe that the private sector can do the whole thing better. Frankly, it's frightening to think that the profit motive will, at some future point, be the driver... and HMG won't be accountable for the poorer services that result from ... a) Money having been wasted on the vast amount of invoicing and profit calculations that will have become necessary ... and ... b) The dividends payable. If you are poor and ill or poor and old ... despair, because you don't count.

Quote ="Mintball"...I've also posted this one too (don't know ho long it will stay up) on [iTelegraph[/i collusion with private healthcare companies etc: skwalker1964.wordpress.com/2012/ ... -colludes/'" I had stupidly wondered what Hunt was up to until Cod'ead reminded me on this forum that the Minister now has no responsibility for the provision of the NHS. He is now in the position where he can tell the NHS "Do it this way" but when that fails, it's not his fault, it's the NHS's. He can now just sit back and snipe at whatever failings he perceives (or wants the public to perceive) in the NHS and no-one can ask him what he's going to do about it, he remains blame-proof. The purpose is now obvious, keep criticising and pointing the finger and, eventually, the public might believe that the private sector can do the whole thing better. Frankly, it's frightening to think that the profit motive will, at some future point, be the driver... and HMG won't be accountable for the poorer services that result from ... a) Money having been wasted on the vast amount of invoicing and profit calculations that will have become necessary ... and ... b) The dividends payable. If you are poor and ill or poor and old ... despair, because you don't count.

I sort of quite like Oborne – he can be not bad. But – and I'm sure this is partly on the basis of what his employer instructs him to do – he's also totally inconsistent. So for instance, after the summer riots a few years ago, he lambasted (among others) David Cameron for a complete lack of moral leadership etc etc. Yet within a few months, another column in the [iTelegraph[/i had him praising Cameron to the skies.




Oh aye. And we're well on the way there already.

I don't think one can overdo the point Jerry Chicken has made more than once about the way people are swallowing the lies of politicians and media makes one realise how the Nazis did what they did – and they actually had an intelligentsia that they made a point of getting rid of very quickly after coming to power. We have a cultural distrust of any such intelligentsia.

The question too hard for you, Ajw1?

At least Andrew Neil is a leftie.
You know, the BBC political journalist who is never off our screens -:
[iDaily Politics, This Week, Sunday Politics.[/i

Sky news are now breaking that the government is to sell NHS blood plasma supplier to Bain Capital

Would that be the part of the NHS that takes blood which is donated for free by the population in a magnanimous gesture towards their fellow man/woman in their hour of need and uses the blood and its products within the publicly owned NHS organisation for life saving stuff ?

So this private company, they'll be getting their raw materials for free and then selling the resultant products back to the public who donated them for free - for profit ?

Do they think we are children or something ?

I doubt they think we're children, even a child could work that one out.

No doubt they'll be promoting it under the efficiency banner. I wonder what will happen to the army of "blood bikers" who voluntarily ferry emergency supplies around the country?

Der! If we get rid of all the volunteers who do this for free and get a private company to do it at a profit paid for by the tax payer it will clearly be cheaper and more efficient.

They could deliver a few letters whilst they're at it.

I would also imagine that Bain will be able to profitise wherever possible. So if they see a greater financial opportunity selling blood products overseas, would there be anything to prevent this? Similarly, if they are to "purchase" blood from the National Transfusion Service, will they be able to import blood supplies from cheaper countries?

A real dog's breakfast in the making here

Possibly yes, with the caveat that they are still banned from selling UK blood products in the USA because as everyone knows we are all contaminated with mad cows disease here and will be for generations (seriously).

There are American citizens who believe that this is why our comedy shows are so good, its because the whole population of the UK is mad.

They will probably import it from Angola, Congo and other HIV infested countries, after all they will have to turn a profit.

Don't forget that Bain Capital is not a PLC, they are not quoted on any stock exchange, they have no shareholders. As such, they account to no one but themselves. They are beyond the scope of FOI and as such, really are not accountable to the British public. Mind you, neither is the Secretary of State for Health, so no change there then

It's a done deal.
Scandalously jaw-dropping stuff.
Do they really think that all the blood donors we have currently will want to donate to Bain Capital's profits?

This is the thin end of a inhuge wedge that these sociopathic vandals are capable of.


BTW ... I can see no mention of this on the website of the supposedly left-wing BBC.

"Blood from UK donors, typically collected in vans and centres by NHS Blood and Transplant, is not supplied to PRUK"

'The majority of NHS hospital plasma supplies come from PRUK, which sources all its plasma from low contamination risk groups in the United States across DCI’s network of 32 donor centres."

Fine, hands up to that one, I retract.

So why do we need this deal?

More to the point: why from the list of bidders was a private capital group chosen instead of various others with proven experience in the field?

I've seen The Shock Doctrine documentary by Naomi Klein. I've read her book (well actually I listened to it while I was working

). I've seen The End of America. I've seen a documentary about the Koch brothers, which outlines how two guys worth about $30 billion each are funding think tanks that kick the hell out of the benefits to the poorest people in society.

I'm presently listening to 23 Things They Don't Tell You About Capitalism, which is basically saying that the "free market" is basically a lie. But it's a lie that conveniently benefits the multi-billionaires at the top of tree who gain by decimating the Govt and leaving them to plunder as they please.

Seeing the way the UK is heading with benefits and everything else, I am actually scared where the US and UK are heading.

Why do we need this deal? We probably don't. There probably are some arguments for it, there will probably be some tangible benefits to make it appear a sensible move.

But personally, I think we are ****ed and I don't see anything to save us. We have the Tories who buy their free market philosophy, we have Labour who are Tory Light and would probably sell off everything the same, they'd just take a bit longer and feel slightly uneasy about it.

The media could help us by telling the story, but hey, they are owned by the free market billionaires as well.

I think the fight is lost. I don't know where we're going, or just how bad it's going to be.

To me this deal doesn't mean that much. It was already a private company, it's just a private company that is being sold to an American private company.

A good book.

It's really easy being a politician, just get the press in your back pocket, feed them some convoluted lies, then let the blame rest entirely at your oppositions feet while you just sit back and watch the bunfight...

[urlhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jul/20/keogh-apology-burnham-tory-smear-hospital-deaths[/url

Sir Bruce Keogh has learned much in the past six months, he has learned that politicians will take an academic report dealing with complex issues and a disputed calculation model, and turn it into newspaper fodder and ammunition to beat someone else with, even if thats not what your academic report said.

It's impossible being a politician when you're operating in a soundbite and headline deep political culture.

The Tories have rolled a BS bomb under the Labour party over this. I don't think there's any doubt about this. But do you think that Labour don't employ this tactic as well?





Sir Bruce Keogh private apologised. He's *said* to be furious.

How about a public berating of misuse of your report. Why not give direct quotes about how furious you are, rather than being *said* to be furious.

Maybe his access to the media is controlled - by the media who don't want to report his version ?

I'm not sure where you're located these days but here in Leeds Keogh was implicitly involved in the childrens heart surgery farce that erupted on Good Friday this year, in fact it was Keogh who ordered the suspension of duties at the unit based on what knowledge he had been given by his own enquiry team.

When it became obvious that his own enquiry team were prejudiced in their findings, to say the least, then he quickly apologised and backtracked and gave several live, unscripted interviews to the BBC in Leeds both on TV and Radio, none of which were reported in the same manner by the national media - the story was carried but not using his words of criticism towards his own enquiry team, it was almost like the story of an incompetent NHS unit that killed too many children was far more important than the fact that it wasn't true.

The constant tide of criticism towards the NHS and stories of incompetence within it are only aimed at one thing - the eventual handing over of various functions to private businesses under the banner of "improvement" and the first stage of this is to convince the public that the system is incompetent and not fit for purpose, only then will they agree that "something needs to be done" and that privatisation is "an improvement", indeed the only choice.

You may choose to not believe this now but in just under two years time this will be the angle taken in order to avoid the spectacle of Cameron having to explain what he meant by his "We'll cut the deficit not the NHS" billboard poster campaign of 2010.

So The Guardian are willing to quote un-named parties as saying that he's furious and has apologised to Burnham, but they don't want to actually speak to him?





I'm over here and have seen the fall out. It's a BS storm and BS bombs have been thrown by all sides. He's previously stepped on and set off a BS bomb. He's covered it and pretty much everyone else is too.

But IMO you're claiming that the BS bombs are only being set off by your opponents. When the truth is the both sides use them and the media thrives on it all. Your side is just getting hit with serious sounding BS bombs at this time and you're whining about it.



Keogh is delivered a ticking BS bomb by HIS team. It's clearly a massive BS bomb that if exploded would spread a huge pile of BS over EVERYBODY, INCLUDING HIM. Rather than getting in the bomb disposal squad in to check, he sets the bomb off. Everyone is covered in a lot of BS.

But the bomb disposal squad are able to look at the evidence and say that he didn't need to set the bomb off. There was an off switch right in front of him. He messed up.

So now he goes on TV, completely covered in BS and says that he was wrong before but he's got it right now and can be trusted. TV says, "Whatever, BSer, thank you for the BS bombs, but you still are covered in it and stink."



See, that's a BS bomb. It's just an ineffective one.

If I need my left leg amputated and the NHS amputate my right one, that's getting in the paper and everyone agrees that they were grossly incompetent and there's a lot of explaining that needs to be done.

You can claim that story is just aiming to undermine the NHS, but it was the NHS who undermined the NHS by causing me to lose both my legs rather than one.



I'm English. Over 3/4 of my life has been in the UK under the NHS.

Nearly 7 years of my life has been spent in the US. I think only 2 of those years were ones where I had health insurance. I'd hazard a guess that my insurance would have been proved to be an almost worthless POS if I'd ever needed it.

My wife has always needed prescriptions. Clearly, dealing with the NHS to get those prescriptions filled is infinitely cheaper in the UK than it is in the US.

I think we're edging towards the US system and it's scary that they might manage it. But IMO your political opponents would just dismiss your concerns as a lame BS bomb and diffuse it.

I don't think that our mainstream media can even begin process this issue. It is too complicated and they are just waiting for the next BS bombs to go off.



Exactly. Cameron and his party have just placed a huge BS bomb in front of themselves.

You and the Labour party are desperately waiting in anticipation of the BS bomb exploding all over him so you can use it to get back into power.

The Tories will do whatever they can to make sure that bomb doesn't go off.

So rather than just doing whatever needs doing in a complicated situation. The Prime Minister of Great Britain is dictated to by a stupid campaign billboard pledge.

The governing of the country is not done in a sensible manner with rational politicians debating sensibly. It's fought in the news headlines with BS bombs.

Jerry - On the TV thread me and Mintball got into a slight disagreement over Zimmerman. She thinks Zimmerman walked because the US is blatantly racist, I think Zimmerman should have never even been charged. IMO if the public of the USA and UK were each given a vote on whether Zimmerman went to jail or was free, Zimmerman would be jailed by both Americans and the British. I believe that is because of BS bombs. Mintball's BS bomb was the Daily Show: www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLxHyxtiS2s I offer Charlie Rose's 3 guests: www.charlierose.com/watch/60241735 The Charlie Rose show, IMO, comprehensive wipes the floor with the BS bomb of the Daily Show's lies. But completely winning the debate doesn't matter when the BS bombs work so much better.

Jerry - On the TV thread me and Mintball got into a slight disagreement over Zimmerman. She thinks Zimmerman walked because the US is blatantly racist, I think Zimmerman should have never even been charged. IMO if the public of the USA and UK were each given a vote on whether Zimmerman went to jail or was free, Zimmerman would be jailed by both Americans and the British. I believe that is because of BS bombs. Mintball's BS bomb was the Daily Show: www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLxHyxtiS2s I offer Charlie Rose's 3 guests: www.charlierose.com/watch/60241735 The Charlie Rose show, IMO, comprehensive wipes the floor with the BS bomb of the Daily Show's lies. But completely winning the debate doesn't matter when the BS bombs work so much better.

I don't understand a word of this

Quote ="Lord God Jose Mourinho"Jerry - On the TV thread me and Mintball got into a slight disagreement over Zimmerman. She thinks Zimmerman walked because the US is blatantly racist, I think Zimmerman should have never even been charged. IMO if the public of the USA and UK were each given a vote on whether Zimmerman went to jail or was free, Zimmerman would be jailed by both Americans and the British. I believe that is because of BS bombs. Mintball's BS bomb was the Daily Show: www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLxHyxtiS2s I offer Charlie Rose's 3 guests: www.charlierose.com/watch/60241735 The Charlie Rose show, IMO, comprehensive wipes the floor with the BS bomb of the Daily Show's lies. But completely winning the debate doesn't matter when the BS bombs work so much better.'" I read your explanation on that thread, it made sense, I changed my mind - there is so much stuff that goes unreported because the news media only want to tell you one angle, usually the angle of the paymaster or the political party that the paymaster is supporting at the time (and then sometimes they switch sides).

Quote ="Lord God Jose Mourinho"Jerry - On the TV thread me and Mintball got into a slight disagreement over Zimmerman. She thinks Zimmerman walked because the US is blatantly racist, I think Zimmerman should have never even been charged. IMO if the public of the USA and UK were each given a vote on whether Zimmerman went to jail or was free, Zimmerman would be jailed by both Americans and the British. I believe that is because of BS bombs. Mintball's BS bomb was the Daily Show: www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLxHyxtiS2s I offer Charlie Rose's 3 guests: www.charlierose.com/watch/60241735 The Charlie Rose show, IMO, comprehensive wipes the floor with the BS bomb of the Daily Show's lies. But completely winning the debate doesn't matter when the BS bombs work so much better.'" I read your explanation on that thread, it made sense, I changed my mind - there is so much stuff that goes unreported because the news media only want to tell you one angle, usually the angle of the paymaster or the political party that the paymaster is supporting at the time (and then sometimes they switch sides).