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| Quote ="El Barbudo"But that's the point Ferocious old chap ... whilst Morsi was democratically elected, he then went off at a tangent, giving himself "temporary" powers to enact whatever law he chose, thereby somewhat undermining what I (and a significant bunch of people in Tahrir Square) think of as democracy and leading many to believe that he was misusing his mandate by heading towards a government run by Islam rather than by secular process.'"
Isn't that a problem with the way the constitution is/was drafted as much as Morsi's wish to impose Islamic law on his people? Shouldn't any constitution contain safeguards to prevent any one person having the power (temporary or otherwise) to enact laws unilaterally?
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| [url=http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/when-is-a-military-coup-not-a-military-coup-when-it-happens-in-egypt-apparently-8688000.htmlRobert Fisk[/url
Quote And by the way, are the Muslim Brotherhood to be allowed to participate in the next Egyptian presidential elections? Or will they be banned? And if they participate, what will happen if their candidate wins again?'"
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| How long will the next president get? If a few thousand take to the streets a month after the new president is sworn in, will the army step in again? How many protesters does it take, 1,000, 10,000, 1 million.
Seems like the army just have the power to do what they want.
Shambles. He was democratically elected.
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| Quote ="Ajw71"Shambles. He was democratically elected.'"
See El B's post above. That isn't the issue
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| Quote ="Chris28"See El B's post above. That isn't the issue'"
Who says he 'went beyond his powers etc'? Is this a fact or is it one army general that decides? What some Egyptians probably thought was unconstitutional others thought was necessary.
Reading through some of his decisions it appears some of his first decisions were to challenge and limit the powers of the generals - no wonder they wanted rid of him. I don't blame him for trying as it's obvious who has the power in that country.
It seems that Egypt is so divided that large swathes of the population will be upset at any one time depending on who is in office. So let the Army show their 'road map' - another election will follow but when the protests begin again, the army will step in again. A true democracy cannot be built in such a way.
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| Quote ="Rock God X"That's kinda the point I was making. If they are allowed to stand, which they ought to be if the elections are free and fair, there's a chance that they (or a party closely aligned with them) could be re-elected. This will leave the army in the position of having to oust yet another government, or accept that the coup was effectively a waste of time.
That being said, the BBC are currently reporting that [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23176401arrest warrants have been issued for 300 members of the Muslim Brotherhood[/url. The report also states that 'the entire presidential team' have already been detained. It doesn't seem very likely, in light of this development, that the army will simply release them all and allow them to stand in new elections.
Neither so I. The Egyptian army seems to, though.
Well if you were being funny, I apologise. It didn't come across that way. Perhaps in future you could assist by making sure that your funny comments are actually funny.
'"
I would be surprised if there is any Muslim Brotherhood candidates.
Firstly 300 hundred have been arrested - how many are left?
Secondly why would you bother? Assuming you were elected, as soon as the protests began you would be ousted by the Army and thrown in a cell.
Effectively the Army's influence is going to be twofold.
1. They will control who can stand for election; and
2. They will influence policy and the direction of the country as the next president knows they will be waiting in the wings should they make unpopular decisions.
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| Unpopular decisions? Have you not read what they tried to do?
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| Quote ="Sheldon"Unpopular decisions? Have you not read what they tried to do?'"
Wait...Wait for it...If we're all very quiet and listen very carefully we might just hear the sound of a Wikipedia page opening
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| Quote ="El Barbudo"But that's the point Ferocious old chap ... whilst Morsi was democratically elected, he then went off at a tangent, giving himself "temporary" powers to enact whatever law he chose, thereby somewhat undermining what I (and a significant bunch of people in Tahrir Square) think of as democracy and leading many to believe that he was misusing his mandate by heading towards a government run by Islam rather than by secular process.'"
Well, yes; which is why I've repeatedly explained that same point myself
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| Quote ="Rock God X"....
Well if you were being funny, I apologise. '"
Steady on. No need for girlie stuff.
Quote ="Rock God X"....It didn't come across that way. Perhaps in future you could assist by making sure that your funny comments are actually funny.
'"
My humour is [ialways[/i funny, but for many, it's just ahead of its time. Oh and I do regularly predict hypothetical future consequences. My bookie's flash motor is a fair measure of my success.
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| Quote ="Rock God X"Isn't that a problem with the way the constitution is/was drafted as much as Morsi's wish to impose Islamic law on his people? Shouldn't any constitution contain safeguards to prevent any one person having the power (temporary or otherwise) to enact laws unilaterally?'"
Yes indeed.
I think you've put your finger on it right there.
So, who gets to draw up a constitution?
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| You've all got it wrong: [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/10159983/It-is-capitalism-not-democracy-that-the-Arab-world-needs-most.htmlit's capitalism, not democracy, that Egypt needs now.[/url
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| Quote ="El Barbudo"Yes indeed.
I think you've put your finger on it right there.
So, who gets to draw up a constitution?'"
The aardvark's a lawyer, isn't he? I reckon he should have a crack at it.
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| Just don't tell the guinea pigs.
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| Quote ="Rock God X"The aardvark's a lawyer, isn't he? I reckon he should have a crack at it.'"
Would the Egyptians appreciate the couple of spoof clauses included for a laugh though?
No offence, Ferocious.
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| Quote ="Mintball"You've all got it wrong: [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/10159983/It-is-capitalism-not-democracy-that-the-Arab-world-needs-most.htmlit's capitalism, not democracy, that Egypt needs now.[/url'"
And while I haven't seen any evidence either way suggesting the army was behind the protests, surely democracy is about the [upeople[/u deciding, and if a "democratically-elected" president goes off the deep-end as Morsi appears to have done, surely it's still democratic for the people to say enough is enough and go on the march again?
I may be misinterpreting it and tbh I haven't read up a great deal but although the army are clearly benefitting, are they not just supporting the new popular uprising?
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| Quote ="Chris28"And while I haven't seen any evidence either way suggesting the army was behind the protests, surely democracy is about the [upeople[/u deciding, and if a "democratically-elected" president goes off the deep-end as Morsi appears to have done, surely it's still democratic for the people to say enough is enough and go on the march again?
I may be misinterpreting it and tbh I haven't read up a great deal but although the army are clearly benefitting, are they not just supporting the new popular uprising?'"
TBH, I haven't been reading that much on it either. But it struck me that this analysis, if nothing else, tells us that the [iTelegraph[/i – or at least this writer – appears to conclude that capitalism is not the same as democracy. Which sounds very different from all the old Cold War rhetoric.
Not only that, but the really important thing is private property ownership, without which you have chaos and terror and violence. Just like in the UK before the entire right-to-buy push in the 1980s.
It also ignores things such as the oil and even tourist industries in Egypt, which rather seem organised as capitalist industries on the basis of what I understand of them.
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| Now the Army are gunning people down the pro-democracy protesters in the street. Oh dear.
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| Quote ="Ajw71"Now the Army are gunning people down the pro-democracy protesters in the street. Oh dear.'"
Unfortunately that's what happens when you advance/storm on places where the army are.
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| Quote ="Sheldon"Unfortunately that's what happens when you advance/storm on places where the army are.'"
Doesn't justify killing innocent demonstrators. There are many ways to quell a protest, indiscriminately firing into a group of people isn't the way to do it.
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| Quote ="Ajw71"Doesn't justify killing innocent demonstrators. There are many ways to quell a protest, indiscriminately firing into a group of people isn't the way to do it.'"
Are you saying that the protests should have been quelled?
If so, how then should the very large number of people make their objections heard when the elected gives himself absolute power?
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| Quote ="El Barbudo"Are you saying that the protests should have been quelled?
If so, how then should the very large number of people make their objections heard when the elected gives himself absolute power?'"
Forget it mate, he's already managed to confuse pro-Morsi supporters with pro-democracy supporters
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| Quote ="Ajw71"Doesn't justify killing innocent demonstrators. There are many ways to quell a protest, indiscriminately firing into a group of people isn't the way to do it.'"
Like you'd know anything about been in fear of your life.
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| Quote ="Sheldon"Like you'd know anything about been in fear of your life.'"
How is that relevant?
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| Quote ="Ajw71"How is that relevant?'"
It could be one of the contributing factors why rounds were fired.
So really relevant.
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