As you're so knowledgeable on the subject of Kaisan, then I'm sure you'll appreciate that there comes a point where all bottlenecks are removed and the system runs as smoothly and profitably as possible. This, after all, is the object of Kaisan.
Perhaps this:



shows the effect that Kaisan has had on this industry - minimal stock is carried, it is transported from A to B with the minimal need for storage for any length of time.

Kaisan is a wonderful system but if you were as aware of how it works, other than the two day course you seem to have gone on, then you would appreciate that there is only the possibility to remove all AVOIDABLE obstacles to smoothflowing throughput using it. The important word has been highlighted for you there, even the best laid out system will have potential problems inherent in it.
The transport system for fuel is one such inherent obstacle, but is the best available method there is - if it was possible to pump it safely along underground pipes with no risk or explosion or theft, then I'm sure Shell would have started using it before now.

All I know is that last week every petrol station in town was full of idiots (and the odd person who actually had to put petrol in their car) and the price went up by 12p a litre (it went up 4p from Saturday morning to Saturday afternoon). Maybe a reduction in fuel duty would be appropriate here seing as they are responsible for the chaos that allowed oil companies to shove the price up.

On the plus side there are now millions of pounds worth petrol sitting in peoples garages waiting to explode (sorry Bluesky

- "combust rapidly"icon_wink.gif. Insurance companies must be feverishly modifying home insurance policies as we speak to remove cover for fire as a result of following government advised petrol hoarding (it's not the 80's, it's not coal and we aren't power stations).

What did you do there?

Wander around with a sack over your head?

Because you sure seem to have a very poor grasp of just how logistics work

What you seem to be saying there is that you don't know what you would do exactly beyond applying some management techniques to that are useful tools for considering and implementing process improvement. We could all say that after a management course. I was being specific. What would you do [iprecisely[/i to improve the process of transporting fuel?

As a layman I don't know.

You really think that such an obvious idea hasn't been considered before and rejected? Off the top of my head I'd suggest that the up-front cost of installing a dedicated pipeline network that reaches to remote locations, coupled with the inherent risks involved with pumping an extremely volatile liquid and exposure to risk of theft makes it a non-starter.


I speak as someone who actually has real-life experience of engineering issues rather than a few days of theoretical training. And someone with some basic common sense and understand of the underlying principles.

I'm loving the idea of a network of underground fuel pipelines. For comparison, water pipelines cost around 1M per 100m and that's not in particularly urban areas. Now think of how frequently they leak and of the costs involved in putting in a suitable specification pipe to supply petrol to a dozen or so outlets in every town and city across the UK. Based on that I think tanker drivers are safe in their jobs for now.

Coming soon to a town near you, courtesy of Sal Paradise Civil & Pipeline Engineering

We had a burst water pipe up our street two weeks ago and it ran for hours before Yorkshire Water turned up.

I'd have been straight down to B&Q for their entire stock of buckets if it had been petrol that was leaking out - problem is, would it have been diesel, unleaded or premium unleaded that I was scooping up out of the gutter ?

Just my luck it would have been bloody diesel and no use to me at all.

Simple way of finding out: take a match to it. If it burns your eyebrows off - petrol (flammable, you see). If the match fizzles out - diesel (not flammable).

You might be suprised by the extent that pipelines are already used in the UK to transport fuel. OK, it's predominantly primary distribution (refinery to storage site) rather than secondary distribution (storage to retail), however it is a huge volume.

Look at the UK Petroleum Industry Association website for details: [urlhttp://www.ukpia.com/industry_information/distribution.aspx[/url

Here's the map of the main existing pipelines:
[urlhttp://www.ukpia.com/Libraries/Download/UK_map_of_refineries_and_terminals.sflb.ashx[/url

I'm pretty close to this dispute - my department manages the secondary distibution of approx. 150 million litres of fuel each week to our forecourts. Whilst I'm not involved on a day to day basis with fuel (I manage our rail network), I have been more involved in the last couple of weeks: trust me when I say that H&S is NOT the main reason for this potential industrial action.

There are lots of other people who are 'pretty close' to the dispute who say it is the main reason. What unique insight can you offer to convince us to trust you over all those other people?

H&S doesn't get your average man to strike. It is just a PR exercise in trumpeting up minor concerns because they make better soundbites than the real reasons behind the strikes.

I believe the primary objection is the continued erosion of employee terms & conditions as each new contract has been awarded. If you think this would not have any concomitant effect on H&S, then I believe you're wrong.

You've caught me out. I'm not "pretty close". I lied. I don't work for a retailer who sells >150 million litres of fuel each week. I wasn't involved in the decision making and re-tendering process of the largest secondary fuel distribution contract for 25 years after TDG were bought by ND last year. I haven't met with Justine Greening a couple of times this year, most recently last week in London, to discuss mode shift and fuel distribution.

Sounds like its all your fault then.

Burn him - has anyone got any petrol ?

I might have, not sure, i was collecting it out of a burst pipe in a bucket from B&Q, it could be diesel though.

I bet that was fun. Did you tell her that Desparate Dan wants his chin back and Oliver Cromwell wants to know when she'll be finished with his warts?

TBH, she's pretty clued up: I expected much worse from a tory minister.

She must've been bloody well briefed then because she's never come across as particularly bright or knowledgeable on transport matters.

[url=http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-do-tanker-drivers-earn-45k/10116?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitterThe +£45k myth exposed[/url

The rich, the priority must be to reduce tax for people who earn more than £150k w@nkers don't know much worth knowing? OMG, tbh, Wow! Amazing!

Otherwise, what would you expect?

Am I the only one totally stumped by this, and indeed by everything this Billypop character writes???....

I have read that i am on 60 k for a 3 day week. It was in the wail so it must be true

And all you do on those three shifts is get your head down, safe in the knowledge that the alarm will sound in time for you to switch the points for the 03.45 up-train to Much Binding in the Marsh