Okay neither team is playing well. but...

Hull fans seemed to be giving Richard Agarout a clean slate with 'his' team, before the season started. They are 7 and 5, despite their marquee half-back signing missing several rounds.

Rovers are 6 and 6. Form all over the place, but Morgan's record at Rovers is exemplary.

To me these are strange types of failure. The fans are passionate, which is great, but is it possible to combine that with 'sensible'? Sacking either now would look mad to outsiders - and with good reason IMO.

Mild Rover for PM



Agree in a certain extent, maybe both clubs have over achieved and now fans expect the bar to be so high

I think the main prblem is that both sets of fans can see the flaws in both coaches and repetitve errors that are made.


Neither will be sacked this year though

I don't really pay all that much attention to Hull so can't particularly comment on their situation other than to say that you can't change the amount of key personel that they have, then bring in such vastly experienced players and expect them all to gel instantly.

As for Morgan, getting rid would be one of the most idiotic things possible for the club to do. Look at our squad in comparison to the rest of Super League, and I mean [iall[/i the squad, we don't have the depth or the overall quality to be any higher than we currently are. That's not a criticism of the players at the club, all they can do is give it their all which in the most they do, it's just a statement of fact.

Morgan has been accused of playing boring rugby, but we're not Wigan circa 1993 we have a game plan that exploits the maximum potential from the limits of the individual players. Leeds, St. Helens and Warrington all have far superior squads to us, but on the day we had the better team. That's what you get with having a good coach, he's not great but he has the potential to take us further. The way the youth system now seems to be starting to perform may well be his greatest legacy.

Both clubs are at max salary cap and should be competing as well as anyone else. bradford are spending significantly less

On better quality players.

Excellent post. It's embarrassing at times listening to phones ins and post on here. Rovers have the right many for the job but I sense that this season has always been seen as a biot of right off as far as the club were concerned. They seem to be giving more gametime to younger players and consolidating rather than trying to push on from last season. I think the club expected to struggle a bit this season although I doubt they would admit it in public. Still I was surprised at the Rovers fans reaction yesterday, virtually every caller or texter wanted shut of Morgan, which is a laughable really. Rovers has some big earners OOC next season and I would expect a couple of big name signings, especially one who can play 6.

As for Hull, we are doing okay considering where we finished last season and it's unfortunate that we have so many injuries at present as I feel the next 6/7 matches are all winnable with a strong team out. Agar is not the right man for the job at Hull imo but he is our coach and we should be supporting him rather than costantly attacking him.

It's worth bearing in mind that this forum, and Blunderside's post match reaction texts/emails etc., are not entirely representative of general opinion. Hull were shambolic last year yet increased their pass sales with no fans unrest evident at any game I went to. Rovers are not doing as well this year as last, however a season of consolidation on and off the field would appear to be the order of the day for them. Sure people are not over the moon with the situation at their respective clubs, however forums and phone ins will always attract the more extreme views whilst the more balanced fans tend not to be shouting their balanced views to anyone who will listen.

The point being that not all fans look at success or failure as dare I say it black or white, but those who do tend to communicate their opinion with more vigour.

I never thought id agree with hutchie but hes right.....

Performance wise 7 and 5 flatters us. He rode his luck last year and again this season Agar has managed to turn good players into sacks of sh*t.

on the subject of phone ins i do not listen to them any more after i heard a hull fan years ago saying he was a rovers fan and he was sick of roger millward and we should sack him and the said guy wears a black and white shirt how many more do that both hull and rovers fans

I think the point is massively missed here...

Rovers and Hull are both among the 7 or 8 clubs that spend the full salary cap, both have boards that have backed their coaches to the hilt, both with a reasonably settled core of a squad.

Yet they are (without doubt in Rovers case) the two poorest teams of the full cap spenders...

Why is that??? With regards to Rovers, Morgan has made some bad decisions in relation to cap spend for me and some of his recruitment is atrocious (see Mills 2 year contract, Fisher new 3 year when he doesnt really want him, Ratu (played once so far), Cook, Clinton for mega money, Welham three year deal when not good enough, Vella extension beyond his usefulness, Newton 4 yr deal onto easy street, paying Fozzard whilst he aint even at the club as with Cooke etc etc) . You are talking hundreds of thousands of pounds that could be better used elsewhere. The money men will not throw their money away forever with no return (Hull are obviously in a much better position to withstand the no return scenario for a prolonged period).

If we were not throwing money around left, right and centre and only wanted to compete with the Quins, Salfords and Castlefords of this world then people woudnt have any expectations and would be thrilled by the odd win against top 4 opposition but Rovers and Morgan profess to want to be one of the big boys and spend accordingly. If you are going to do this and come out with drivel about winning grand finals and doubles than i can have no sympathy when people want to criticise when you come up with performances like the last two games.

Given the fan base,and passion of both sets of supporters its a shame we are chugging along as we are.I know that passionate support shouldn`t equal automatic success,otherwise Newcastle would win the Prem every season.
Its just frustrating at times.
I know other clubs fans would argue they are just as passionate,but I bet there is not a better R.L. stronghold as there is in Hull.

someone's unhappy!!!!! vella,newton,welham,do you not rate them????

Vella is up among the best props we have ever had, Newton can be great on his day, Welham is plainly out of his depth however, but if you were shopping for a prop at this minute would you give Mick Vella £130,000 a year for the next two seasons..???? You could have got Sam Burgess for that....

It all about managing the cap to the maximum and getting value for your money...something Justin doesnt seem to have grasped just yet..

seems alot,but the club obviously see it as worth the risk???? never been a newton fan,but i am undecided regards welham-can be decent in spates.

Larry Billey often seems particularly unhappy and disenfranchised about most aspects of being a Rovers fan.



I think as usual you paint a far blacker picture. However with regards to recruitment and contracts I think you've got [isome[/i valid points.

Just to play devils advocate with you though, 1)Mills-I'll give you, did deserve a new contract but should have only been a year. 2)Fisher-Morgan may well want a different hooker in an ideal world but who is available to do as good a job for the same money? 3)Ratu-Is a young kid (who has also been injured) who may or not may work out as a Rovers player, too early to call and won't be costing a lot on the salary cap. 4)Cook-good squad player who won't be on a wedge and fulfills a role until our junior programme begins to bear fruit. 5)Clinton-Too early to decide whether he's worth what will be a large contract. We certainly needed to beef up the front row though and who would you have got that's better? 6)Welham-In my opinion he is good enough to do a more than adequate job for us, in yours he isn't. 7)Vellas not especially firing at the moment, he doesn't look fit, another reason why we needed Clinton. Played in the correct number of bursts he is still a very effective prop. 8 )Newton isn't in the form he was last year, I don't know which player your watching but he doesn't seem to be lazy and not bothered to me. He'll come good again. 9)I have no idea as to the Cooke or Fozzard contract situation and unless you're a director at the club I think it highly unlikely that you do either.

Edit; Fixed.

Just missing my point again , i am not really discussing the abilities of any of the players, i rate some, dont others, not the issue...

By the end of his contract this year Mills will have been paid somewhere in the region of around £80,000 for 4 appearances...good value..???? Good salary cap management...??? Justin clearly doesnt believe in Fishers ability as a first choice SL hooker hence the moving of Murrell (who was becoming an accomplished loose man) to a position i very strongly suspect he doesnt want to play.., why then give Fisher another three years, Justin was already more than aware of all the aspects of his game having signed him from Fax in 2006,..Ratu has played one game and there has been no more mention, his contract whilst not massive , would probably have paid for two youngsters from the academy to go full time, unless Ratu comes in now and performs superbly (highly doubtful given Morgans record with players he consigns to the wilds) has that been good value..., Cook , without knowing what he takes up can not say whether he is value but he is not of the standard of a challenging team imo else why would Bradford let a home grown go given the current rules.., Clinton is acknowledged to be on a wedge, a wedge for three seasons, a wedge that could have bought an international player of repute, whilst i think he is a good player and is good member of the squad there is no doubt there is better out there for that money.., perhaps we should have waited a season as we knew, deep down that we were doing nothing this year, what was the point of shelling all that out this season..a reasonable question i think..,..Vella is not worth the money he is currently paid, he WAS no doubt but again we could have an international player for his current wage...why was he given an extended deal on such terms when JM is fully aware of his age and injury record..and is it co-incidence that Clints form has fallen since his new four years of security were given to him..why tie us into four years is the question..and it will be chunk of the cap... all reasonable enough questions for me ..

Again, Rovers and JM choose to spend at full cap and pay what they do to who they do....they must live with the pressure that comes with those decisions...JM is extremely well paid and has a pretty cushy job with benefits...i dont understand this sympathy business because the fans wish to exercise their rights and criticise...

strong words!!

Does Morgan have 100% control over who Rovers sign and how much they pay though? Rovers fans are always quick to mock Agar and claim it's Kath/Rule that do the recruitment and pick the team. Maybe Hudgell exerts significant influence here. There is a suggestion that Morgan never wanted Cooke, for example, and spent the best part of 3 years trying to get rid. The new deal for Mills was/is baffling.

i could well believe it too.

I'd be surprised if Morgan hadn't wanted Cooke in 2007. There might have been players he'd have preferred, but in a choice between the 2007 model Cooke and nobody, it would have seemed bizarre not to want him. Whether he came to regret it, is another matter.
The new deal for Mills only seems baffling with hindsight. He was ever present in 2008, and I don't think anybody anticipated him dropping so completely out of contention. Every coach will make mistakes - it is when they start to consistently outweigh the positives that it is time for a change.

Cooke vs no Cooke to escape relegation, undoubtedly, but at a price of being locked into a 3 and a half year deal, six figure salary (per the HDM) and a rumoured golden hello? The original point was to question Morgan's use of the salary cap. I'm just suggesting that the Cooke deal, as an example, might not have been all Morgan's own work.

Of course so far Morgan's positives massively outweigh the negatives. But some of his idiosyncratic choices - Murrell at hooker, biggest prop in the squad sat in the stands for 48 of 52 games, making Dobson the Chesney Hawke-esque "one and only" creative player, getting a bit of a track record in shipping players in and out before contracts are up (Ward, Gannon, Crossman, Cooke, Fisher?) - does mean that a bit of challenge is appropriate. We've been doing the same since Agar took the job at FC - unfortunately the more we moan, the more years are added to his contract.

Showing your age again but I agree

Has mills played at all this season? Presume if he doesn't he won't count on the cap

Hasnt even featured for the reserves. Will still count on the cap though, unless anybody knows different.