2002 - Barry Eaton, an honest player but not so popular with the fans. The last decent scrum-half at this club.

2003 - Ryan Sheridan, one of the star players of his generation and an established international snubs a big move to Hull to move to Widnes from Leeds. He managed to look terrible.

2004 - Dean Lawford? Smart little player. Then he put about 5 stone on and could barely move before his release. Not forgetting Willie Peters, a cracking little half but he decided that playing for Widnes wasn't for him.

2005 - We had Gary Hulse, Warrington's fans' player of the year the season before and he was turd. And Steven Myler, one of the sport's bright prospects but he never quite shone for Widnes. He's now making a brilliant career for himself at Northampton RU.

Back to the small time, and we bring in James Coyle from Wigan. Stevie Mac decided that playing with one playmaker was the way forward that season, pinning his hopes on a youngster. Capable player but often folded under the pressure and seemed to be carrying injuries.

Joel Penny came with a half-decent reputation, which didn't grow here. Remember that dropped ball in the Grand Final anyone?

Dennis Moran tried and failed to get the better of James Webster, is it my memory or did the veteran number 7 get ousted to stand-off as soon as he arrived here.

John Duffy does a job, he's not going to be a saviour however.

And in comes in Webster, one of the biggest thorns in our side in the past. On all accounts, an honest player, with bags of talent. Yet McCormack and Cullen in a combined effort manage to make the ginger half look disinterested, uncommitted, poor and an all-round disappointment.

Let's face it, it sums up Widnes as a club. The Vikings are brilliant at making a mess of the simplest of tasks.

Why do you think we've never had our scrum-half saviour? Will Webster turn it around?

Fantastic summary and completely spot on!!

Widnes = perennial underachievers!!!

Any ideas then?

Sack Cullen , sound bites are not enough.

No he won't because he is a bad apple is Webster.

Interesting

Hes not the only one. Team of individuals with too many big egos who cant get along together on the pitch and a coach who lacks the respect of the players.

I was told weeks ago, prior to the start of the season that SMc was having trouble with him. If that is still the case then anyone who crosses the line can get ed. There are young local lads there with a bit of pride and these two-a-penny ing superstars are sinking the ship.

It really comes to something when fans of other teams can see it too.

This team is rotten to the core.

Last years side had spirit, pride and worked hard for each other. You could see that with the never say die attitude that brought us those last minute victories. The lads we got rid of last year are worth 10 of some of the gash we've brought in.

Rumours follow players about on message boards and usually 9 times out of ten they tend to be true. Now you can afford maybe one or two `problem` players or players with big egos but when its 5, 6 or maybe 7 then there are always going to be problems. By all accounts Webster took his bat and ball home weaks ago. Fletcher on his day is a fantastic player but has an ego bigger than any club. Wildbore was always going to cause trouble etc etc. It really seems Steve Mc didnt do his homework on the players he was bringing to the cub and just signed them because of what he thought they could do on the pitch, this dosnt always lend itself to great results.

I think it's harsh to blame McCormack totally for recruitment. JS on the other board is close to some on the inside at the club and he reckons TOC brought many of the players in.

i dont think you need to worryabout webster i rate him really highly and he will turn it around good players always turn it around and he is a very good player.

You forgot to mention Andy Kain in your list - a player that helped to beat Leigh and was for a short time looking a decent no.7 for you guys, Did he play 9 games before he was farmed out for the arrival of Dennis Moran and Oli Wilkes.

Now carving a niche out for himself at Fev and looks a capable little player.

I heard a while ago after the Fax vs Widnes game (League) that Webster didn't like it at Widnes, didn't like the travel over from Hull, and didn't want to move as his wife (from Hull) didn't want to move & she'd recently had a baby.

As it happens, doesn't he travel across with Wildbore? perhaps they have a mutual opinion...

Yep.. we need to.. ahem.. 'think outside the box' we need to instil self belief. If the job is beyond the current coach then I think we need to look to a professional. Which I think we need to.

We need to get in a proper sports psychologist and we need to get this team to adapt a winning attitude. A line needs to be drawn under the last game and the players need to go into the next game as if it was, mentally, their first game together as a team.

Each game at the moment simply acts as a reinforcement to the previous games played. You can see it in the faces of the players. They are clueless at the moment as to why it goes wrong and more worrying is the feeling of powerlessness when things start to go against us.

I posted on the other forum about the need for good mental health in competing and we look like we are missing this.

Like your thinking but half of them shouldn't need one. Walking in the club alone and seeing all those greats pictured on the wall is enough on it's own to serve as a motivator to get playing.

Get the hulme brothers on the coaching staff on a part time basis, get China with the forwards and Dave with the backs.

Perhaps the weight of responsibility has overawed some of the players. Could be quite breath taking to some players seeing all that glory all over the walls and being reminded of the task they've been given.

I suggested a sports psychologist in our SL era and almost got lynched before being banned.. Personally I think it's a good idea. Games are won and lost in the players mindset.

Vic.. to you or I or anyone else that frequents these boards or the other board then absolutely that would be the case.

If however someone from Halifax, Leeds, Saints, Wigan or Salfud turned up would it have the same effect??

Probably not.

I would - but i'm 38 and i remember the greats like Sorenson, Hulme bros, Lydon, McKenzie, Grima, Davies, Eyres - players with big reputations even though they weren't from "my club" i'd still be in awe of that gallery and know what is expected of me. The younger ones sadly won't have that experience.

Precisely. I don't mind losing - it's the lack of pride and team ethic that hurts.

They can come round my house for a brew and a chat. I'll ing show em all my shirts and if they are lucky to have passed the test at the end of it they can have half a pepsi (with ice) in a limited edition Mick Adams Testimonial glass!

The only answer I have is that the club should be sold by the recruiters when they are talking to these players, on the back of that I'd guess a sports pyschologist wouldn't be a bad thing.

Wrong year DParky, Kain played alongside Dennis for the start of the season before Ian Webster took over and prior to the arrival of Joel Penny.

Kain always looked fairly comfortable in the reserves but got too much stick from the fans in the first team. I think we expected too much for a young lad to move over here with his girlfriend, fit in and be a star.

Not surprised he is putting performances in over that side where no doubt he is more comfortable.

And I was shot down by the Widnes mafia

for even daring to suggest such a thing.

Who do we honestly believe put daft clauses in Webster's contract saying that he only had to make x amount of sessions a week.

From what I believe I dont think he has been a disruptive infleunce.

He is described by the other players as being very quiet, turns up for training and games and gets on his way again.

He doesnt seem to be up for it at all over here although I can appreciate the travelling doesnt help. Certainly not to his previous performances at Hull KR where he was a little general.

I believe the biggest bone of contention in the squad is Websters lack of voice on the pitch and giving no direction to others. From what im told Duffy has tried to take this over, be loud and direct but has managed to get peoples backs up doing so.

No surprise we where so poor on friday night. Duffy wasted at loose and Thackery a player who is only at home floating and trying to create off the cuff. Webster should be the one marshalling but the flat line, one out stuff within a couple of metres either side of the ruck show that he isnt taking his job on board.