How can you say that we looked beat before the game even started. From what i saw, the players that took the field tried whatever they could. At times Wigan didn't know what had hit them. We had some good sets in defence and a few decent attacking sets.

We were beaten by a bigger, stronger, quicker and smarter team. It's that simple. Gentle did exactle what he could to put the best team out as possible.

As someone mentioned above, Gentle can't be blamed for the lack of youth developement over the last few years, the lads that are being tried by Gentle are giving their all, but just aren't quite at the grade yet, not really from any fault of their own.

I wasn't trying to lay blame as such just that everything he does and says it met with praise and yesterday was a day when there could have been gentle critcism. We are allowed to ask the odd question and challenge the odd decision.

I have no worries long term as I have already said in my original post but even allowing for everything, yesterday was still very poor.

Then, you'll have to forgive me. I was momentarily confused when you said:

"Coach has to take some share of blame."



I would disagree. I don't think there's anything Gentle could have done differently yesterday to prevent the defeat or even to noticeably alter the scoreline.



No one has said otherwise. But equally, other posters are allowed to challenge your criticism if they feel it is unjustified.



Again, I don't see it. Wigan in that form are difficult to contain with a full strength side. With nine first teamers out and a few guys playing whilst injured, it's easy to see how things ended as they did.

It's quite possible that an in-form Wigan could have come to the KC and beat our first string by, say, 20 points. We lost by 44 yesterday, and it's easy to see where the 'extra' 24 points came from.

no first choice half backs, virtually no 1st team centres, down on 2 front line props and facing the most in form team in the league (hudds apart). reckon gentle more or less sacked the game off, better to take the beating then get down to 2 weeks off the get players back, and this bit is important, get players back who are fit enough to play. its pretty obvious that there are players who have played the last 3 or 4 games not fully fit. this is now the chance to get some rehab going

We'll see how far we've come in a couple of weeks against Leeds. Gentle himself as said he expects around 6 or 7 frontline players to be back, if that's the case then we have no excuses. It will be interesting to see how we go.

Dont't think it's "sacking the game off" , what else could he do? he played the 17 players available to him , there may have been a couple of choices but essentially it's who's left standing. He said at the start that the squad wasn't good enough to compete at the top and yesterday proved that it lacked depth and in all liklihood quality. Something he has said he will address.

I did think more than once about posting this thread.

Yesterday was the first time we have not competed under Gentle's reign and there were major factors such as injured players, players not fully fit and too many young players in at once. I have alluded to all this and did state in the very first post that I wasn't trying to have a go at the guy. Just merely saying that despite the circumstances the performance wasn't good enough. We were beaten from the very first set yesterday and should have stayed in the game longer.

It's more an observation that an out and out criticism. Against Hudds in both games were lost convincingly but we did compete and were in the game for long periods. Yesterday was different. I am not worried though and have complete faith in Gentle and what he is doing.

I have noticed though that since AP/Gentle came in people don't like questions being asked whether it's new signings or any other issues. In the interest of balance I don't think it's wrong to say we were very poor even accounting for the mitigating circumstances.

You have? People like who?

perhaps sacking it off was the wrong phrase, i meant not going at the game like a bull in a china shop and getting even more injuries - i know injuries can occur anywhere and at any time, but i think gentle was happy with a conservative game yesterday

Got to agree with all these sentiments:

I cannot believe that some would prefer to revert back to Agars ways of moving players around?

As for Martin, sometimes you have to give the players the call and trust their judgement, if fit enough or not.

Yes I have. No individuals, more a consensus of not wanting/daring to to criticise.

I think you mean people giving him time and not making daft comments when we're clearly struggling with injuries etc. Gentle hasn't been here long, you were one of the key protagonists telling us to "give Agar time" when we could clearly see he was out of his depth, and yet you don't seem prepared to afford Gentle that same opportunity.

double standards

Will those 6 or 7 be match fit?

Some have been out quite a while, so they might not be up to speed.

If we know that our players have knocks and where, the Wigan players would have and target the players and areas. I notice young Ben got a few "welcome to super league" hits. He handled them superbly. Well done to him although I bet his ears are still ringing.

So you've no read my posts then, standard! My backing for Gentle could not be more than it is, 100%.

I wasn't pro-Agar I just didn't think he was to blame for everything and didn't like things like being abused for how he spoke. I said before he was appointed I didn't want him and I said he should be sacked time after time.

Yes we were ‘poor’ but given all the circumstances I fully expected it.

I went yesterday expecting to be well beat, we where ..............

I also saw a team trying and a crowd getting behind them and that was worth the entrance money .

Now I'm all for a debate and all but what exactly have we as fans so far under the ownership of Pearson & tenure of Gentle as Head Coach got to criticise this season?

They have made massive changes in every dept of the club both on and off the field far more than any of thought they would at all let alone in one go.

This season will be a bit of a rollercoster as we'll have highs as well as lows but even with these the way the club is on the field is already streets ahead of were we where at the end of last year.

The only possible thing I would criticise is the price in the away end as I think Pearson made a bit of boob by the way that was handled.

Its just not a case of not wanting or not daring to criticise for me there is very little if anything to find fault with at present, we haven't even gone down the route of loan players as used to be the case rather than put faith in and blood our own youngsters instead of Leeds youth etc.

Exactly and the concensus from the attanding fans was one of support for the players who although faced with a impossible task still went out and gave it their all which was appreciated by the fans and all we can ask.

So did I, didn't expect 50 but I expected a hiding.

Nothing I can think of really. Maybe some discussion around new signings. I think a few people were not happy after the Salford/London games with our attack. It was all fairly minor stuff.

People are clearly misunderstanding my point, all I said was that yesterday we performed badly even allowing for the issues we had. We didn't compete and we have done in every other game this season. We can't just have nothing but praise for the new regime, we are allowed to have debates. It doesn't mean i'm anti-gentle or impatient or being unrealistic etc etc. Just pointing out we were very poor.

I think the consensus is that there is nothing to criticise, rather than the fact that people daren't criticise.

What, prior to yesterday, do you think has warranted criticism that hasn't been forthcoming?

Wow. So there's 'nothing you can think of' that has merited criticism, yet you have 'noticed a consensus' that people don't want to/daren't criticise the new regime? Your message is rather muddled.

Are you saying that this 'consensus' you have noticed is solely because some posters aren't prepared to lay blame at Gentle's door for yesterday's poor result?

I don't think anything warranted criticising but there was debate over pricing, Sunday rugby, Pitts signing, just small stuff like that. Personally i'm very happy with the way things have gone since AP took over and Gentle came in, only negative is Manu perhaps leaving but the club seem to have done everything in their power to give him a good contract so I ahve no issue with them there.

Nope!