simple replace him with a coach

I regularly read post's with interest but very rarely post. I have read with interest the regular Agar out/in threads that seem to be posted weekly and have bounced backwards and forwards over the year as to what my real opinion of him as a coach (not a person) is. I have followed Hull since 1999 so I'm not as seasoned as some of the fans that post on here but I have experienced a few different coaching setups now and I can honestly say that throughout my time as a fan I have never enjoyed my rugby less. I no longer get excited in the build up to match days like I used to and have even found myself wondering whether I can even be bothered to go to certain games due the level of tripe we have become renowned for serving up.

I have found myself bemused at times by Agars tactics on the field, I cannot understand why in such a physical game as ours you would name players on the bench and then either not utilise them at all or save them until the last 10 mins of a game. I then find myself wondering why when players seem to play more than well enough to warrant inclusion in the following weeks team they are inexplicably dropped.

I support Hull FC and because of this have always wanted (and always will while he is still here) Agar to succeed however it is the style of rugby that is played under him that concerns me the most, I would rather lose 27 games a year and see us play like we did against Leeds than see us win 27 games like we did against the Crusaders as an example.

I was concerned that I might just be getting caught up in the Agar bashing and just using him as someone to blame so I did a bit of digging and came up with the following stats.

Agar has now had 3 full seasons in charge, he has played 81 League fixtures during that time. We have won 33 Lost 47 and Drawn 1, he has a 41% win ratio in the league. Of the 33 fixtures he has won 18 have been by a winning margin of 1-10 points 11 by 11-20 and 4 between 21-30 we have not won a game by 31 points of more in the 3 years he has been in charge (I didn't look at cup games). We have scored 1583 points and conceeded 1906 - a deficit of 323 points with an average of 19.5 points per game.

If you contrast Agars stats with those of 2004,05 & 06 we played 84 games in the league Won 54 Lost 26 and Drew 4, we had a 64% win ratio in the league. Of the 54 games we won 25 by a winning margin of 1-10 points, 15 by 11-20, 7 by 21-30 and 7 by 31 points or more. We scored a total of 2319 points and conceeded 1726 - a positive of 593 (916 points greater than Agars) and an average of 27.6 points per game.

I can't help but look at these and think it demonstrates we have some serious issues in the setup somewhere and you have got to look at the coaching setup as starting point surley. It is true that this season has been our best out of the three but our winning margins are still terrible having won 9 by 1-10 5 by 11-20 and just 2 by 21-30.

I'm not sure where the club go from here but unfortunately it's a clear Agar out for me I'm afraid.

A very well thought out post with some very intersting points and stats.

With posts like that you should really post more. As Agar is such a huge fan of stats (Well when they show something positive) it is good to see that others can actually see he just is not up to the job.

My whole thoughts on this are quite clear. Agar is not good enough and never will be. The team plays dire rugby which is illustrated by our points scored in the league. If you look at the whole make up of the squad its just a mish mash of . If there is any form of plan for the team then i cant see it. Too many ageing players that will have to be replaced within two years. A pack full of foreigners who at best will prob leave after a couple of years anyway meaning more rebuilding. Both half backs finished and need replacing though we'll probably go down the Ozzie route again and the cycle will continue. The team is a complete and utter mess and will not win a thing for at least five years.

That's all well and good Paul but what about next season ? Is that just going to be written off as another season like this one ? Maybe make the eight and get one play-off game, suffer with the same HB problems with Long never there and Horne totally anonymous whether he's there or not.

We've clearly missed out on some good signings for next season and with Agar still in charge and a very similar squad, it is very difficult to be even remotely optimistic about 2011.

Getting a proper and proven coach immediately would be a good start to this "5 year plan"

and i get abused when i use stats!!

Excellant post, well thought out and researched. Well done mate.

I don't understand how you say this season was written off after the amount of money we spent on the marquee signigns of Long, Fitz and O'Meley.

You do Statto but not from me!



Not beaten a team by 31 points or more in 3 years is alarming.

The win ratio and net points difference gives a real indication of our negative playing style under Agar. It kind of backs up my rants at the start of the year about boring rugby.

Well, that's because I didn't say that !

Next season will be written off as one with the odd good performance/result but ultimately, no chance of silverware (like this one)

16 wins this year is a decent return, especially as you continued to struggle to consistently put out a settled hb pairing. Unfortunately for Agar the season drifted a bit at the end (although he couldn't have afforded a slow start to the year) and the play-off defeat came against the worst possible opponent - it wouldn't have been so bad vs Huddersfield, for example. A victory would have been against the best possible opponent, of course, and then the memories would have been more of the rousing double over Saints and three (or even 4!) derby wins. Though hard not to today, it is unfair to judge progress on one game - and I'd think the same if you'd won and were getting carried away with Old Trafford here we come threads.
That said you are very one dimensional, struggle to be at your best consistently and if you want to be competing on an even footing with the very best teams you need to squeeze more value out of the cap.
The stats post was fair and interesting, but Agar only took over midway through 2008 iirc, so is the end of Sharp's reign being included there?

I'm saying that with the same players he would have achieved less

Nice as it is for us that you have enlightened us with your thoughts, not one of us who wants rid of Agar are saying it based on one match. We have been dished up pathetic rugby for several years now. Very few of us if any can see an end to the current style or form. Enough is enough now. Agar stated he would be judged on results and would walk if he felt he had failed. Well if he is true to his word now is the time to go so that we can start a fresh in November when the squad start training again. That said I am certain if he did do that Last would be head coach by xmas.

Then I tend to agree. The biggest concern I have with him is that I don't think he is willing to play the type of rugby to compete for trophies. There's a case argued that it's down to the players not being good enough that forces us to play basics first to try and get the best from them, but I'm not entirely buying that.

we was 1 game away from finishing 4th. with what we had dealt yet again this season i dont think he has failed. The only dissapointing thing for me is i would like to have won 1 play off game. So for me we wasnt a million miles away from what i expected from the season. Did you expect more? win 2 play off games? make the final? maybe your expectations were set too hig at the start of the year

agar learnt his trade under 2 boring coaches who played % rugby. It's not his fault. If he'd worked under a couple of top class coaches then things might be different. The rugby we play is one dimensional and boring. It's 100% down to the coach. No one else is to blame. Whoever is on the field it's the same.

We are definitely the worst side in SL to watch

I share the sentiment of the first bit, but the last bit is too much. I think we're better than Bradford to watch.

I'm not really a "stats" person but, for a side still in with a shout of 4th spot in the last week of the season, our points difference was an absolute embarrassment. If that alone doesn't indicate what Agar's HUll FC is like to watch, what does ?

When orford was fit, bradford were a much more entertaining side than us.

Agar was in charge for more or less the whole of 2008 as Sharp had gone by May, I discounted the 2007 season intentionally as far as the stats where concerned as I had though Sharp had gone in 2007 however this wasn't the case. One area my stat post may have been slightly unfair is that in terms of entertainment McRea seemed to produce the greatest return on investment as he ended the 2004 season with a plus 365 points difference and also beat 4 teams by more than 31 points, 4 teams by 21-30 and 5 by 11-20 (it was the year we dusted Salford and Widnes by more than 70 points each) so essentially McRea did more in one season than the next 3 coaches could muster in the last 6 in!! Whilst I appreciate we've won the Challenge Cup (my greatest day as an FC fan) and also been to Old Trafford (the year we finished 2nd 50% of our 20 wins came by 10 points or less and we only won 1 by 31 or more) in those 6 years we have IMOH seen a dramatic decline in quality and entertainment since McRea left the club and the stats would certainly appear to back this up.

A negative points difference.
Defeats and failure to compete against Wigan and Wire.
Defeats at Crusaders (and a lucky home victory in poor style) Salford, Wakey, Quins in Scotland.
A total inability to play two decent halves back to back. See Saints H, Bradford away, Quins away, Huddersfield away.
A total inability to a) get our 6 and 7 on the park AGAIN and b) to even look like coaching a new pairing or buying a new pairing.
Back to back Leeds games in league and cup when we totally failed to show up.
The inability to appear to be up for yesterday's game.
Other than all the above I would say its a success this season. Take a bow Mr Agar you have done us proud.