No, cos your boring me!! Just give it a rest.. Here's a suggestion, the reason this country is on it's ar5e is because of people like you!!

I'd counter, it's not in an ar5se at all, it's actually doing quite OK if you ignore the media and those under 30.



EDIT

In fact, in order to have a reasoned discussion, lets have two things from all sides of the argument...

5 things that are "in an ar5e" about the UK (and what you would like to see done about it)
5 things that are ACTUALLY worse under the new coalition government (and what you would have done differently)
5 things that are better about the country you'd move to if someone gave you £1m to do so

then we can have a better discussion..... (I have a feeling we belong on The Sin Bin mind)

I dread to think what the countries ar5e would be like if you were PM

Was just thinking the same .....

Ah, that old chestnut. The old "you've pointed out what a fool I am, so I'll just say I'm bored with you" get out. Well done.



People with the capacity for rational thought? That's almost as stupid as your other suggestions.

Well, it will go one of two ways, discussion as suggested, or shouting and posturing with little substance behind either side of the argument (a little like the House of Commons!)

So we can discuss what Standee suggests we discuss or simply shout and posture? Those are the only two alternatives?

As regards this discussion, some of us have included a little substance. For example, I haven't only said what ideas I think are stupid, I've also said [iwhy[/i I think they're stupid. The fact that the person on the other side of the argument then starts backtracking and making accusations of 'taking everything too literally' is, I'm afraid, beyond my control.

Wasn't a dig at you RG, I was imply suggesting that instead of saying "x/y/z is going to a/b/c" people might want to give examples.

thanks for the interesting file,didn't realise the benefits came in as a result of WW1 - much of what is said we have encountered - my good lady was due to start a new job (with the Social Services) on the monday but decided to fall down the stairs whilst sleepwalking a few days before,smashing up her feet with spinal damage.This was in 1998,she was declared 80% handicapped in 2002 and was entitled to the basic AAH (Disability Allowance ?) until 2005 when I received a pay rise which wiped out the allowance because of exceeding the threshold etc.She was told that she could not work for financial reward so she worked for a voluntary organisation (Resto du Coeur) for a year before being diagnosed with cancer and has been on chemo plus operations ever since.
I can honestly say the french welfare system has been brilliant from the outset,no wonder it keeps on getting top ratings from the WHO each year.The hospitals etc are superb so most french people understand the reasons for inceasing the retirement age to help pay for this great service.
The reasons why so much of the french system works so well (though it is struggling to maintain standards in these hard times) ? well,we could spend hours discussing this but for me it all comes down to the infrastructure of the two countries.In the 80s while Mrs Thatcher was cutting services,selling off the family silver,closing pits etc etc etc in fact anything to cut spending,her counterpart in france Mr Mitterand decided to spend his way out of recession ie a massive road-building programme,the TGV and upgrading the rail network,new hospitals, renovation of the inner cities,revamping of the public services ie EDF etc etc the result is today we have a pretty solid infrastructure - it's not perfect just like most countries but I can't think of many reasons why I would want to return to the uk

TGV and EDF are not state owned, nor are most of the toll roads. And the social services in France may have done well to you and yours (for which I am glad), as for most French people backing the rise in retirement age, I can only assume you haven't ventured much farther than the area you live in. I take it you haven't been to many inner city areas either, I'd hardly say they are regenerated so much as ghettoised.

Somethings this government has done that I don't agree with: (and this is just for my own personal situations)

1. Got rid of the 18 week waiting time at hospitals. I found this very useful when I needed surgery to work out pain medication that I needed for what lengths of time, also I had a round-about time where I could prepare for surgery. I am old enough (just) to remember the 2 year waiting lists of the previous Tory government and I wonder how I would have managed if I had to wait 2 years+ for all my replacements.

2. Making all IB and ESA claimants have a re-test. If I have to have a re-test then lets have a sensible one assessed by someone like your consultant who knows you and knows what you are capable of doing/not doing and not to be asked daft questions like "can you hold a pen". Pretty ridiculous to be assessed by a lay person who has no medical knowledge who can change your life in a tick of a box because, yes I can hold a pen, now ask me if I can write comfortably with that pen and you'll get a different answer.

3.. Obviously the COuncil cutbacks. Having a spouse who works in Local government this is a passionate one for me. As the OP suggest 1400 job losses yet our council tax has stayed the same for the second year running. I would quite happily pay a little more on council tax if they could guarantee no job losses.

4.. VAT rise. VAT up by 2.5% yet no pay rise for Council workers and my IB hasn't gone up either. I'd rather see a rise in Income tax so its more fair, the more you earn, the more you pay.


What I'd like this government to do:

1. Cap the utility companies who are just out to swindle us.

2. Cap the oil companies, diesel £1.30 a litre



3. Build more prisons and be tougher on the criminals. Criminals in an open prison because of overcrowding? I'm a big beliver in you do the crime you do the time, none of this tagging lark.

4. Most of all I would like them to listen to the people of this country. I fear we will see more sights like we did in the early to mid 80's like Brixton and the miners if the people are not listened to.

Thats all I can think of right now, I'm sure I can come up with loads more during the course of the afternoon

In the UK you can get DLA (Disability Living Allowance) if you're working and DLA but Incapacity Benefit is when you cannot work, they are both not means tested. My husbands wages put us over the limit for me to claim Income Support which in turn would get me other things like help towards optical care and dental care, but I don't really care much about those benefits because we are lucky we have my husbands wage to cover those things.

agreed, an aspirational 18 weeks was good, but has proven unaffordable, but a return to 2 years must be avoided at all costs.



Again, agreed (in part) you should be assessed be a qualified medical professional, but not your own consultant.



Disagree (and as you know, I work in the Public Sector also), it's become too big and too inefficient, and far too top heavy, the 1400 "losses" will not really be much of a loss, just some non jobs and some dead wood offered ER, you want to pay more for inefficiency then fine, I don't.

Disagree, Council workers have had above inflation increases for years, and based on nothing more than staying in the job, it's not performance related and everyone gets it, they already earn inflated wages for their ability and would be lucky to get employment in the Private Sector (in some cases), they also get inflated holidays, sickness and pension.


What I'd like this government to do:


Disagree, they are out to make profit, and cap them how, by making them move operations off shore, re-nationalise?

Disagree, the companies spend BILLIONS on R&D, and a huger percentage of the cost is taxation anyway.

Ah, so you want social justice for those on IB, but not for those who may have genuine reasons behind offending, hypocrisy duly noted.



General Election Result LibCon 1 - Labour 0

The only two "genuine" reasons I can see for people to offend would be to steal food because you or your children are starving and if you didn't you will die and committing manslaughter for instance due to self defence. Give an example of a "genuine" reason to offend other than those two.

So you don't think that a person's circumstances can lead them to crime? Their upbringing, perhaps? Drug addiction, maybe?

Drugs are a choice, you can chose to take them, you can chose not to take them, you could have chosen not to have ever started taking them. I know people who have not had the best of upbringings or brought up in care and they wouldn't even dream of breaking the law and are very honest, hardworking, decent people.

Imo unless you have learning difficulties or some mental health issues you know what is right and what is wrong. If you don't want to go to prison, don't do the crime!

Just my opinion of course!

So, abused at home from the age of 3, taken into care at 13 because you are pregnant by your own father, you start on alcohol as a coping mechanism, progress to canabis, then some kind "dealer" offers to let you have cocaine for free if you do "favours" for his mates, eventually you hate yourself so much you start to do heroin just to escape, you get to an age where your "friends" "mates" will no longer pay the "going rate" but you owe him £5000 (or so he tells you), so you start turning tricks on your own to feed your habit and cover your debt.

sounds like a hell of a "choice" to me.

disabilities are not all physical

I do see your point and I'm not that naive or blinkered to think the above scenario couldn't happen but I think there are other coping mechanisms out there. Why couldn't she have gone to a shelter or perhaps even the local "Social" department and they could have put her in touch with the relevant people ie AA or councillors who could have helped her get her own place, maybe a part time job and the baby in a creche, to get her self worth back? Its something I would have done, if I thought alcohol wasn't enough I would have to take a step back and to question why I needed more and what could I do to prevent me from getting more.

I don't know, maybe its my shelted life or just the sensible part of me that wouldn't let myself get into that situation in the first place but I don't disagree it can't and doesn't happen.

Edited to say last year I was on a drug called Fentanyl, I used the patches and was on the highest dose possible. It is an opiate, same class as heroin. After I had my hips done even though I still had mobility problems I didn't have the same level of pain so tried to come off the Fentanyl. I went through a month of absolute hell and I don't ever want to experience that again. I didn't go cold turkey I came down gradually. So even though I am not or have been a drug addict I did experience what they must go through to get clean and I can honestly say I can understand why a lot of addicts don't want to come off.

at 13?

Im leaving this here, nonsense isnt the word.

Not heard of the School Girl Mums unit in Hull who help girls just like you described?

You can leave it where you like but you asked for OPINIONS and I gave you mine, then you proceed to shoot me down in flames because I have an OPINION

I happens to all of us

Indeed and I know its a reason why a lot of people who read this forum refuse to post. It seems you can be asked to give your opinion but if it doesn't tally with the person who asked then woe betide.

Yes, of course, getting pregnant at 13 is the same if it's Paul from around the corner or your own Father, of course you'd turn to Social Services, I mean, it's not as if they've done nothing to help you for the last few years.

So, taking your logic, lets remove all benefits from you, you chose to continue to live, that is a choice, you could choose not too.

See, fundamentally futile isn't it, some things in life CHOSE US, not the other wayo your around.

To suggest someone with genuine mental health problems deserves less support than someone with a physical disability makes you an even bigger hypocrite, at least most of us are saying those in genuine need (no matter from where that need stems) deserve help.

You are entitled to your opinion, based on whatever it is, as I am entitled to mine, based on unfortunate experience of the very people you would cast into prison and throw away the key.

I'm not falling out with anyone over this, but such blinkered and simplistic views make my bloody boil, I hope nobody on here suffers and genuine mental problems, they can be harder to come to terms with than a physical disability, at least people can SEE you've got a leg missing, they can't see 20 years of physical, sexual, emotional and psychological abuse.

(rant over)

and you can cut the sanctamonious stuff too White Star, I wasn't denigrating your opinion, just exposing the little basis in fact on which it was based.

So everyone should just agree with each other?

Opinions are open to challenge. As long the person challenging doesn't break the AUP then I really don't see the problem. Sometimes exchanges get a little heated if the topic is controversial or close to the heart of one or more of the participants.