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| Well they had their knockers, especially Grix, but now I think we all realise how instrumental they were in our 'success' in 17 & 18. Finn controlled things and allowed Miller to play a more natural running game, and Grix was often the guy who supplied the final pass after a slick move, and was an excellent talker on the field. They haven't been replaced properly, and we are now a million miles off being a quality team. That said, I don't think it would have mattered who played in those positions last night, with the amount of errors we made, it was shocking, and the likes of Bill, TJ etc just look well off the pace. I thought Westerman was probably the best of a bad bunch. There are no leaders on that field, and now Chester is under massive pressure to turn things around, he simply isn't getting anywhere near the best out of some of those, and hasn't for some time, he is a lucky man still to be in a job!!
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| I agree both players did an excellent job for us especially Finn who was greatly underrated IMO.
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| Finn yes, Grix no. For me he just stunted the development of Jowitt. I never saw the sense in replacing Finn with someone who was even older and to he honest because he wasnt a dominant personally I think he got the best out of Miller too.
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| I agree. And actually Grix was the most important for me.
Defensive management and linking in the line was a big part of our success.
I'm hoping Walker brings some of that back.
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| I’ve said this before, watch Trinity tv and Grix, of course he had a few half decent games but majority were terrible in all departments, cameras don’t lie apparently. Any way he’s moved on and history now.
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| Signing Grix just stunted Jowitt's development. Even so, Jowitt has plenty to offer when he gets a "crumb" from Chester. One of few positive performers in the pre season friendlies too.
Lets not even discuss the game at home to Saint Helens which put the cherry on Grix's goodbye cake.
Finn was past it. Hampshire & Miller was the answer at that time.
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| Yep they certainly polarize opinion those two! But they still haven't been replaced! I agree Jowitt hasn't ben given a fair crack, but he's prone to silly mistakes when he does play, and I doubt he communicates very well which is a big part of a full backs job. Obviously we haven't seen Walker yet properly which is unfortunate.
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| Jowitt is the only player with a good cut out pass could be interesting Sunday to see how he links up with Miller and Hampshire . A few season ago we tried. that line up against Hull away and Leeds .We played well in both Matches.and the ball movement was good We lost both matches Instead of going with it again Chester went back to Finn . Snag is we have not got Ranndel who also played well in those matches
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| Grix absolutely not and in no way better than Jowitt or Rocky.
Finn to be fair at the time I didn't rate him, I thought our attack would be so much quicker without him. Obviously that has not been the case but I would suspect a lot of that is down to the coaching.
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| Quote ="Khlav Kalash"Finn yes, Grix no. For me he just stunted the development of Jowitt. I never saw the sense in replacing Finn with someone who was even older and to he honest because he wasnt a dominant personally I think he got the best out of Miller too.'"
I don't see how Grix stunted the development of Jowitt, we played the best FB we had at the time... just like we are now. Jowitt is clearly a talented player but there is a reason he's not getting picked for us.
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| Quote ="TheDreadnought"I don't see how Grix stunted the development of Jowitt, we played the best FB we had at the time... just like we are now. Jowitt is clearly a talented player but there is a reason he's not getting picked for us.'"
Because nothing beats match experience. Jowitt was progressing nicely. Super League Rookie of the Year at the end of what I would call his last full season.
There was then and currently still is only one opinion that counts and it aint mine or yours.
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| Quote ="Wollo-Wollo-Wollo-Wayoo"Because nothing beats match experience. Jowitt was progressing nicely. Super League Rookie of the Year at the end of what I would call his last full season.
There was then and currently still is only one opinion that counts and it aint mine or yours.'"
So lets blame Washbrook/Arona for Crowther not being our starting loose forward and blame Lyne for Croft not being able to secure that number 4 shirt because lets remember, nothing beats match experience.
You go with your best player available at the time, Grix came into our squad at 32 with over 14 years RL experience and 200+ SL games under his belt.
Also Jowitt didn't win Super League Rookie of the Year.
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| Quote ="TheDreadnought"So lets blame Washbrook/Arona for Crowther not being our starting loose forward and blame Lyne for Croft not being able to secure that number 4 shirt because lets remember, nothing beats match experience.
You go with your best player available at the time, Grix came into our squad at 32 with over 14 years RL experience and 200+ SL games under his belt.
Also Jowitt didn't win Super League Rookie of the Year.'"
Agree with above but I’d add that also players must be dropped when not performing no matter who they are
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| Quote ="Kettykat"Agree with above but I’d add that also players must be dropped when not performing no matter who they are'"
Correct, sorry by best player I meant in terms of ability and of course current form.
It's a conversation that seems to die down more and more here but for me the Jowitt ship has sailed, I see him featuring when we have injuries but nothing else. I don't see why we would sign Walker if they were satisfied with Jowitt.
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| Quote ="TheDreadnought"So lets blame Washbrook/Arona for Crowther not being our starting loose forward and blame Lyne for Croft not being able to secure that number 4 shirt because lets remember, nothing beats match experience.
You go with your best player available at the time, Grix came into our squad at 32 with over 14 years RL experience and 200+ SL games under his belt.
Also Jowitt didn't win Super League Rookie of the Year.'"
You can argue that those guys have had their progression hampered but not by replacements who were a bloody liability. Again opinions. Presume you were nit-picking regarding the Rookie award?
Previous winners:
2008 Luke Burgess – Leeds Rhinos
2009 Sam Tomkins – Wigan Warriors
2010 Liam Watts – Hull Kingston Rovers
2011 Jermaine McGillvary – Huddersfield Giants
2012 John Bateman – Bradford Bulls
2013 Tom Lineham – Hull FC
2014 Joe Burgess – Wigan Warriors
2015 Andre Savelio – St Helens
2016 Max Jowitt – Wakefield Trinity
2017 Liam Marshall – Wigan Warriors
2018 Jake Trueman – Castleford Tigers
2019 Morgan Smithies – Wigan Warriors
How many of the others were shelved at that stage of their career.
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| Quote ="Wollo-Wollo-Wollo-Wayoo"You can argue that those guys have had their progression hampered but not by replacements who were a bloody liability. Again opinions. Presume you were nit-picking regarding the Rookie award?
Previous winners:
2008 Luke Burgess – Leeds Rhinos
2009 Sam Tomkins – Wigan Warriors
2010 Liam Watts – Hull Kingston Rovers
2011 Jermaine McGillvary – Huddersfield Giants
2012 John Bateman – Bradford Bulls
2013 Tom Lineham – Hull FC
2014 Joe Burgess – Wigan Warriors
2015 Andre Savelio – St Helens
2016 Max Jowitt – Wakefield Trinity
2017 Liam Marshall – Wigan Warriors
2018 Jake Trueman – Castleford Tigers
2019 Morgan Smithies – Wigan Warriors
How many of the others were shelved at that stage of their career.'"
You can argue that Grix was a liability but I can argue Jowitt was and still is too inexperienced. Opinions eh.
Ask yourself why the club chose to sign two players and play them in front of Max and then the bigger of the two, would be have still ended in 5th (4 places higher than the year before) in 2017 if we played Jowitt over Grix?
Official Rookie Of The Year list for anyone that is interested:
2008 Joe Westerman
2009 Sam Tomkins
2010 Sam Tomkins
2011 Jonny Lomax
2012 Zak Hardaker
2013 Ben Crooks
2014 Daryl Clark
2015 George Williams
2016 Tom Johnstone
2017 Oliver Gildart
2018 Jake Trueman
2019 Matty Lees
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| Quote ="TheDreadnought"So lets blame Washbrook/Arona for Crowther not being our starting loose forward and blame Lyne for Croft not being able to secure that number 4 shirt because lets remember, nothing beats match experience.
You go with your best player available at the time, Grix came into our squad at 32 with over 14 years RL experience and 200+ SL games under his belt.
Also Jowitt didn't win Super League Rookie of the Year.'"
Utter e, Jowitt basically played the majority of games the previous season and proved he was good enough. Pushed out for an old Grix who in truth was no better than him and was undroppable for some reason even when horrifically out of form.
Completely different point but on Croft, signing Atkins seems like a similar situation. He is good enough to be our 4th choice centre but now is likely to be 5th. I completely get playing your strongest team but lack of youth development/game time is definitely a criticism I would level at Chester.
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| Yet our best couple of seasons since 2004, or was it 2009 under Kear? were when Finn & Grix played in the majority of games?! So they played no positive part in us finishing 5th, just a co-incidence that they were in the team anyway and we would have finished 5th whoever played in their respective positions?!?!
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| What it kinda says to me is, over the last 10 years or so, with the odd exception, notably Fifita, is we sign players when they only have a couple of seasons left in them. Brough, Kopzcak are prime examples, very good signings if we had got them 4 or 5 years ago! But because we weren't in the place we are now as a club in general, they wouldn't have come at that stage in their career! That's why it's so hard for clubs like us to not fall back to square one after a couple of good seasons, same for Salford, Hudds, Cas etc, they just can't seem to sustain it. Maybe we have to more realistic, but that's just being negative I suppose because generally over the last 35 years I've been following Trin, it's been far more thin than thick! I did though think we were possibly building something special, that would last and maybe see us finally win something over the next few years, now i'm not so sure, but I sincerely hope i'm wrong.....
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| Finn and Grix came into a very good Wakefield side who could carry two players who had been let go by there clubs as not been wanted .Grix will be remembered for costing us a place in the top four .Finn was given to long a contract and is last year was shocking .This close season we have brought 5 player in not wanted by there clubs into a team that wanted strengthening . London went down after winning 10 matches think we will be struggeling to get 5
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| Quote ="alegend"Finn and Grix came into a very good Wakefield side who could carry two players who had been let go by there clubs as not been wanted .Grix will be remembered for costing us a place in the top four .Finn was given to long a contract and is last year was shocking .This close season we have brought 5 player in not wanted by there clubs into a team that wanted strengthening . London went down after winning 10 matches think we will be struggeling to get 5'"
I dont think it's right to say thet either Girx of Finn were "carried"
Finn did everything expected of him and steered the side around the park + a decent kicking game and Grix was generally very good, apart from the occasional (expected) error.
He will be long remembered for the fatal error against Saints but, to say they were carried, is just ridiculous.
The brutal facts for us is that we can only get decent players by offering them longer contracts as they come to the end of their careers and lets be honest, why else would they choose Trinity.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"I dont think it's right to say thet either Girx of Finn were "carried"
Finn did everything expected of him and steered the side around the park + a decent kicking game and Grix was generally very good, apart from the occasional (expected) error.
He will be long remembered for the fatal error against Saints but, to say they were carried, is just ridiculous.
The brutal facts for us is that we can only get decent players by offering them longer contracts as they come to the end of their careers and lets be honest, why else would they choose Trinity.'"
Spot on, they were very professional in what they did, and it was a real shame Grix made that error against Saints. We actually looked like a proper team and everyone seemed to know their roles and we saw the results of that. It was key to the evolvement of the team that they were replaced properly, and they haven't been. We tied down the likes of Ashurst, Fifita, Tupou, TJ etc to long term deals which was no mean feat for a club like ours, but to get the best out of them we need(ed) a top scrum half & Full back.
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| Quote ="Wildmoggy"Spot on, they were very professional in what they did, and it was a real shame Grix made that error against Saints. We actually looked like a proper team and everyone seemed to know their roles and we saw the results of that. It was key to the evolvement of the team that they were replaced properly, and they haven't been. We tied down the likes of Ashurst, Fifita, Tupou, TJ etc to long term deals which was no mean feat for a club like ours, but to get the best out of them we need(ed) a top scrum half & Full back.'"
Indeed
Brough was seen as too good a chance to turn down but, a player in their mid - late 20's would have always been better.
Having said that, good halves are like rocking horse muck and almost impossible to find, let alone sign - just look at the England/ GB side, where we havent had a really good HB pairing since Edwards and Gregory were ripping it up at Wigan and even they weren't prolific at International level.
Just imagine if we'd had a pairing of their quality with todays forwards (well, maybe the pack of 2 years ago).
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| Quote ="alegend"Finn and Grix came into a very good Wakefield side who could carry two players who had been let go by there clubs as not been wanted .Grix will be remembered for costing us a place in the top four .Finn was given to long a contract and is last year was shocking .This close season we have brought 5 player in not wanted by there clubs into a team that wanted strengthening . London went down after winning 10 matches think we will be struggeling to get 5'"
Did they? 16 members of the team were the same as they were in 2017 and 2016...
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| I thought Grix was class for us on and off the pitch.
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