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He's been taking a fair amount of flack recently, and rightly so in many cases, but looking at his stats on the Super League website he doesn't stack up too badly.
Compared to Ryan Hall, probably the best winger in the comp, Fox has made made 28 errors vs Halls 31, missed 25 tackles vs Halls 19 & scored 16 tries to Halls 14!
All in all it doesn't look too bad, though as we have tighter games Fox's errors are magnified and often more catastrophic to the end result.
Stats aside does anyone think there are any viable alternatives for the wing positions right now? There does seem to be a lack of competition here. Is Lee Smith too important to how we play to be pushed out wide, would Lynne be a positional improvement, what about big T who started as a winger or any of the academy?
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| Quote ="LURL_Cat"He's been taking a fair amount of flack recently, and rightly so in many cases, but looking at his stats on the Super League website he doesn't stack up too badly.
Compared to Ryan Hall, probably the best winger in the comp, Fox has made made 28 errors vs Halls 31, missed 25 tackles vs Halls 19 & scored 16 tries to Halls 14!
All in all it doesn't look too bad, though as we have tighter games Fox's errors are magnified and often more catastrophic to the end result.
Stats aside does anyone think there are any viable alternatives for the wing positions right now? There does seem to be a lack of competition here. Is Lee Smith too important to how we play to be pushed out wide, would Lynne be a positional improvement, what about big T who started as a winger or any of the academy?'"
what a novel idea putting Big T in as a winger, reminds of the days when Vainikolo used to plough down the wing knocking players aside |
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| Quote ="LURL_Cat"He's been taking a fair amount of flack recently, and rightly so in many cases, but looking at his stats on the Super League website he doesn't stack up too badly.
Compared to Ryan Hall, probably the best winger in the comp, Fox has made made 28 errors vs Halls 31, missed 25 tackles vs Halls 19 & scored 16 tries to Halls 14!
All in all it doesn't look too bad, though as we have tighter games Fox's errors are magnified and often more catastrophic to the end result.
Stats aside does anyone think there are any viable alternatives for the wing positions right now? There does seem to be a lack of competition here. Is Lee Smith too important to how we play to be pushed out wide, would Lynne be a positional improvement, what about big T who started as a winger or any of the academy?'"
Think Lynne is a potential for winger rather than centre due to his natural pace as don't think he's quite there as a centre for Super League. Lee Smith seems to be more suited to centre than any of the other positions although played wing for rhinos a number of years ago, is he quick enough though?
TT is really a utility forward rather than winger now and would be wasted out wide. |
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| Quote ="asmadasa"Think Lynne is a potential for winger rather than centre due to his natural pace as don't think he's quite there as a centre for Super League. Lee Smith seems to be more suited to centre than any of the other positions although played wing for rhinos a number of years ago, is he quick enough though?
TT is really a utility forward rather than winger now and would be wasted out wide.'"
Fair point, though I was thinking putting Audi out wide could offset Washbrooks often ineffectual carrying? We essentially play with a 5 man pack in attack.
That being said, unlike some, I think Washbrooks defensive quality is priceless. |
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| Quote ="asmadasa"Think Lynne is a potential for winger rather than centre due to his natural pace as don't think he's quite there as a centre for Super League. Lee Smith seems to be more suited to centre than any of the other positions although played wing for rhinos a number of years ago, is he quick enough though?
TT is really a utility forward rather than winger now and would be wasted out wide.'"
What natural pace!!!
I'm yet to see this mythical entity rear it's head, Never seen him take a man on the outside and beat him for pace - seen both Cockayne and Fox do that and neither are lightning fast these days.
I'd actually be excited about Lyne if I had ever seen him use this "alleged" pace. I'm not saying it isn't there I'm saying I'm yet to see it - shame really. |
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| Quote ="LURL_Cat"Fair point, though I was thinking putting Audi out wide could offset Washbrooks often ineffectual carrying? We essentially play with a 5 man pack in attack.
That being said, unlike some, I think Washbrooks defensive quality is priceless.'"
Washbrook is the ultimate tackling machine, pity he is playing out of position at the moment. |
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| Fox isn't bad with ball in hand so his stats are likely to look fairly good. Plus he has collis inside him. (not literally  ) He's a liability in defence and under a high ball though. |
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| Quote ="Adam_Harrison9"Fox isn't bad with ball in hand so his stats are likely to look fairly good. Plus he has collis inside him. (not literally
) He's a liability in defence and under a high ball though.'"
That's the thing though, v.s arguably the best all round winger in the league his missed tackle and error stats don't look that bad!
Although stats of course don't show us everything and I agree with your assessment, I just thought it made for an interesting comparison. |
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| Quote ="vastman"What natural pace!!!
I'm yet to see this mythical entity rear it's head, Never seen him take a man on the outside and beat him for pace - seen both Cockayne and Fox do that and neither are lightning fast these days.
I'd actually be excited about Lyne if I had ever seen him use this "alleged" pace. I'm not saying it isn't there I'm saying I'm yet to see it - shame really.'"
He looked to have both pace & quick feet in the Boxing Day game at Headingley.
Both of these attributes have become less evident as time has passed so, maybe the guy either isn't ready for SL or, is suffering badly with confidence issues.
Having said that, he aint no Lynford Christie ! |
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| Quote ="LURL_Cat"He's been taking a fair amount of flack recently, and rightly so in many cases, but looking at his stats on the Super League website he doesn't stack up too badly.
Compared to Ryan Hall, probably the best winger in the comp, Fox has made made 28 errors vs Halls 31, missed 25 tackles vs Halls 19 & scored 16 tries to Halls 14!
All in all it doesn't look too bad, though as we have tighter games Fox's errors are magnified and often more catastrophic to the end result.
Stats aside does anyone think there are any viable alternatives for the wing positions right now? There does seem to be a lack of competition here. Is Lee Smith too important to how we play to be pushed out wide, would Lynne be a positional improvement, what about big T who started as a winger or any of the academy?'"
How many attacking high kicks to the corner does fox diffuse successfully compared to Hall?
How many trys conceded are as a result of a fox error or penalty compared to hall?
My point here is that whilst fox has some impressive stats when compared to 'the worlds best winger', it strikes me as a bit of a coincidence that teams play on him and kick to him....they obviously see him as a weak link, but why if his stats are so impressive? |
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Fox has been great the last few weeks you cannot compare Lynn with Fox Lynn has not shown me a thing. I saw a little bit of pace in the friendly against Fetherstone thats it. It doesn't matter if you have pace if you cannot beat a man or get past a man. He maybe quick with nobody tackling him. Fox and Cockyne are very hard workers they are very good. They need to simmer down though when we are winning with a few minutes to go. Cockyne had 2 poor games against Leeds the pass he threw out to poore with 5minutes to go was appauling no need for it. Ball up the jumper time. Lynn not even in the same league as these 2 at the moment.
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Quote ="vastman"What natural pace!!!
I'm yet to see this mythical entity rear it's head, Never seen him take a man on the outside and beat him for pace - seen both Cockayne and Fox do that and neither are lightning fast these days.
I'd actually be excited about Lyne if I had ever seen him use this "alleged" pace. I'm not saying it isn't there I'm saying I'm yet to see it - shame really.'"
Fair point really. Lynne started well pre season and appeared quick and strong busting some tackles a bit like a young Jason Robinson and scoring a few tries but I agree he's really struggled after injury and hasn't offered much since making a lot wonder whether he is fully focused and up to Super League.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/19787281
"Reece is a player with outstanding potential and possesses raw speed," said Wakefield coach Richard Agar.
Agar, who coached Lyne during his time in charge at Hull, continued: "As a 16-year old there was every club in the country after him and at 19 he's already got a dozen first grade appearances to his name.
"He's a player for the future and I'm really pleased that we've been able to sign him. I'm confident that given the chance to develop he will become a top Super League player."
Lyne said: "I can't wait to get started. Wakefield is a club that is massively on the up and it's a really exciting opportunity for me to come and be part of that.
"Looking at the club as an outsider this year it's been obvious that it's a club going places and with a great spirit amongst the squad, particularly towards the back end of the year." |
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Quote ="vastman"What natural pace!!!
I'm yet to see this mythical entity rear it's head, Never seen him take a man on the outside and beat him for pace - seen both Cockayne and Fox do that and neither are lightning fast these days.
I'd actually be excited about Lyne if I had ever seen him use this "alleged" pace. I'm not saying it isn't there I'm saying I'm yet to see it - shame really.'"
Fair point really. Lynne started well pre season and appeared quick and strong busting some tackles a bit like a young Jason Robinson and scoring a few tries but I agree he's really struggled after injury and hasn't offered much since making a lot wonder whether he is fully focused and up to Super League.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/19787281
"Reece is a player with outstanding potential and possesses raw speed," said Wakefield coach Richard Agar.
Agar, who coached Lyne during his time in charge at Hull, continued: "As a 16-year old there was every club in the country after him and at 19 he's already got a dozen first grade appearances to his name.
"He's a player for the future and I'm really pleased that we've been able to sign him. I'm confident that given the chance to develop he will become a top Super League player."
Lyne said: "I can't wait to get started. Wakefield is a club that is massively on the up and it's a really exciting opportunity for me to come and be part of that.
"Looking at the club as an outsider this year it's been obvious that it's a club going places and with a great spirit amongst the squad, particularly towards the back end of the year." | |
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| Quote ="LURL_Cat"Fox has made made 28 errors vs Halls 31, missed 25 tackles vs Halls 19 & scored 16 tries to Halls 14!'"
Scored 16, but conceded how many due to the 25 missed tackles and dropped balls?? |
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Fox is fine where he is as far as I am concerned. No reason to look for other options.
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| Quote ="newgroundb4cas"Fox has been great the last few weeks you cannot compare Lynn with Fox Lynn has not shown me a thing. I saw a little bit of pace in the friendly against Fetherstone thats it. It doesn't matter if you have pace if you cannot beat a man or get past a man. He maybe quick with nobody tackling him. Fox and Cockyne are very hard workers they are very good. They need to simmer down though when we are winning with a few minutes to go. Cockyne had 2 poor games against Leeds [uthe pass he threw out to poore with 5minutes to go was appauling [/uno need for it. Ball up the jumper time. Lynn not even in the same league as these 2 at the moment.'"
And that lost us the game as Leeds scored from the resultant set. |
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| Quote ="LURL_Cat"He's been taking a fair amount of flack recently, and rightly so in many cases, but looking at his stats on the Super League website he doesn't stack up too badly.
Compared to Ryan Hall, probably the best winger in the comp, Fox has made made 28 errors vs Halls 31, missed 25 tackles vs Halls 19 & scored 16 tries to Halls 14!
All in all it doesn't look too bad, though as we have tighter games Fox's errors are magnified and often more catastrophic to the end result.
Stats aside does anyone think there are any viable alternatives for the wing positions right now? There does seem to be a lack of competition here. Is Lee Smith too important to how we play to be pushed out wide, would Lynne be a positional improvement, what about big T who started as a winger or any of the academy?'"
Have been critical but fair play he had a good game v Leeds, Defused some tough bombs, made some good yards. Can't recall an error |
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| Quote ="BelleVueLifer"How many attacking high kicks to the corner does fox diffuse successfully compared to Hall?
How many trys conceded are as a result of a fox error or penalty compared to hall?
My point here is that whilst fox has some impressive stats when compared to 'the worlds best winger', it strikes me as a bit of a coincidence that teams play on him and kick to him....they obviously see him as a weak link, but why if his stats are so impressive?'"
thought foxy did well last week!! |
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If he'd diffused the kick for Leeds final try in the game at Headingly we would have won though... Such is the close nature of most our games mistakes like that have a profound affect on the final outcome.
Of course their were many other aspects of our play that meant we didn't win the game as well but in an exposed position and under the microscope of a high bomb it is easy to see why players like Fox get bagged so often.
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Im with vastman on lyne I have yet to see this pace he has to burn and to be honest I thought Foxy would struggle to get a game when he came.Foxy like Ben does some great stuff going forward but the errors in defense some times cost us.
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On current form, I prefer Fox to Cockayne in the team. It would be interesting comparing those two.
One thing about Fox, is that a few times lately, he has put his body on the line, and is trying really hard.
I think Lynne should be competing with these two for the wing berths. Leave Smith at centre for now. If we were to sign a quality no 6 for next year, then it may be time to re shuffle, because at the moment I would be tempted to keep hold of Smith and Sykes
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| Quote ="Wandering Wildcat"On current form, I prefer Fox to Cockayne in the team. It would be interesting comparing those two.
One thing about Fox, is that a few times lately, he has put his body on the line, and is trying really hard.
I think Lynne should be competing with these two for the wing berths. Leave Smith at centre for now. If we were to sign a quality no 6 for next year, then it may be time to re shuffle, because at the moment I would be tempted to keep hold of Smith and Sykes'"
With Fox you get complete effort everytime. He nevers goes missing and has put his body on the line on more than one occasion. Trying to tackle Pat Richards with his head at BV being a prime example. Unfortunately he is prone to making daft mistakes either through over eagerness or through taking the wrong option. If Trinity can get better then its an area that needs looking at, both wings, but if not then Fox should take the right wing berth next year. |
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| Quote ="tamargrace"thought foxy did well last week!!'"
He does have some good games. what concerns me is that more often than not he makes decisions which cost us try's. Superleague is all about winning games and for me, things like 'he did ok' or 'his effort was 100%' doesnt wash. For me, he makes too many mistakes which cost us too many games...but I also subscribe to the notion that if we were to replace him, who is available who is better? |
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I agree BVL. For the money he is on is there anyone out there who could do a better job? His mistakes are certainly magnified as he either catches bombs or doesnt, but have lost count of the times ive shouted 'for God's sake Foxy' this season. Always 100% effort though, but it only gets you and the team so far.
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Part of the reason Foxy/Charlie are left exposed in defence is in my opinion due to our fullback not running the defensive line , he is more often to be seen just to the other side of the posts instead of following the attacking play. Even Big Earl on the commentary asked where he was to one of the tries.
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) He's a liability in defence and under a high ball though.
