Not technically gifted to provide a link, but on BBC Sport RL page says thirteen other clubs have or had players on holiday visas....any ideas who these clubs maybe could include us ?

If true then someone has a bucketfull of explaining to do.

Quote ="Fred Gee"Not technically gifted to provide a link, but on BBC Sport RL page says thirteen other clubs have or had players on holiday visas....any ideas who these clubs maybe could include us ?'" news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 218083.stm

Quote ="Fred Gee"Not technically gifted to provide a link, but on BBC Sport RL page says thirteen other clubs have or had players on holiday visas....any ideas who these clubs maybe could include us ?'" news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 218083.stm

My knowledge is limited but I gather that the players fallen foul of the system were not allowed to play professionally on a holiday Visa. Given that all SL clubs are fully professional then I doubt any club who has been in the top flight for a good number of years will have had any imports on these terms.

Many of the championship clubs may be twitching through

Just copy n paste whats in your address menu bar

I think Luke Dorn and Mark McLindon where on holiday Visas when they signed for London.

Out of the thirteen clubs,only one player is still playing now.

Also in League express it refers to semi pro clubs,so i would imagine all the clubs concerned would have been in the championship over the last 4 years at some point.

Ive seen a few Aussies act as if this is a holiday

was told, when we were struggling to get Petersen over here last year (well worth the wait

) and others were delayed, that the reason Wigan got Phelps over quickly was because it was a holiday visa.

'Being told' and what actually happened can be quite different, and tricky to prove unless you have the evidence!

From what I understand the UK Borders Agency relaxed the regulations regarding Working Holiday Visas to allow players to play as AMATEURS. Any payments to such players would have been in breach of of these regulations, thus rendering there Visas invalid. This raises the question of how these players were paid, brown envelopes maybe? I have heard that when Celtic were in NL2 & NL1 their Visa applications said that they would have jobs with a Company owned by a Director of Celtic (who is no longer with the Club). Apart from the obvious breach of UK Borders Agency regs it surely raises the question of financial irregularities if they were receiving their wages from a source other than the Club. If this turns out to be the case it is distorting the Salary Cap, I know that several NL clubs queried Celtic`s ability to field such a strong team in NL2 on a cap of £200k. Don`t forget that the Cap includes benefits in kind, i.e. return flights to Oz, club cars and accommodation. I think this has a long way to run, for the sake of the integrity of the game as a whole I agree with Phil Clarke that there should be an independent investigation.

I believe the company was called Decor and the players ‘worked’ there whilst on holiday. The UKBA were set to stop amateurs coming over and playing but Gateshead challenged the ruling a the dispensation was permitted, but only if the players were completely amateur. I would be interested in finding out who the other 13 clubs are who have used this loophole as I would imagine the authors of a lot of the vitriol in the letters page of the League Express would have a lot of egg on their faces when they find out their club has done exactly the same as Celtic.

With regards to payments distorting the salary cap, I’m sure it’s not much different to Steve Renoufs wife having a 200K a year cleaning job at the JJB.

Not that any other club would ever do that!!!

Wonder how the salary cap works with players taking on 'commercial' or 'marketing' roles within a club...

Very True

The salary cap is purely about the amount paid to the SL squad of 25. You might recall that we dropped JD from the SL registered players for a while the other year while recovering from his neck injury to help reduce pressure on a cap that was then linked to turnover as well as having a maximum amount.

Well if what has been stated is believed to be true, this will hopefully serve as a major kick up the ass for a lot of clubs about who they are recruiting from places such as Australia, New Zealand and other South Pacific places where the Kolpak/Ancestory rulings have been open to abuse for such a long time. If six players can get deported from Wales for not having the correct paperwork or documentation, then not only those players, but the clubs really have got to keep a very close eye on the exact details of who is joining them. Of course, we know have two teams from France at the top two levels in Rugby League and as far as I'm aware the main difference on French immigration laws compared to Great Britain is that they do not have the points system for applicants outside the European Economic Area that was recently introduced to this country and along with several other contrasts between the laws of two countries, it therefore makes the recruitment of team/playing personnel in our sport very complicated, so much to a point that it ends up being a political matter, rather than a sporting run.

Complicated post, yes, but matters like this are very difficult explain briefly.

There are three questions to be answered:
1 has any club deliberately sought to break the law by conspiring to breach visa rules?
2. In order to achieve the first aim, has any club concealed payments to players, thus giving them an unfair advantage on the field.
3. Would the Border Agency have given proper visas if they had been applied for?

I am less bothered about breaking visa rules than I am about an unfair advantage, as breaching the rules is a matter for the individuals, but anything that gave Celtics an unfair on-field advantage in the years before franchise has got to be stamped on.

from what I remember of comments at the time from supporters of other nl clubs ther were receiving unfair advantages throughout there short existance, in order for there rapid promotion through the leagues and thusly into super league, which surprisingly they managed to get in!!

The RFL response will be interesting if it turns out that the club concealed salaries to the RFL that would have otherwise breached salary caps, as I suspect that only northern clubs have to show financial stability and honesty.

Tortoise and hare, I think. Celtics may be undone by their determination to win it all at the first attempt, and I wonder if Samuels will hang around for long if he gets the whiff of trouble. His pre-franchise comments blackmailed the RFL into admitting them, and he may use similar words if he gets the scent of a tough punishment. If the RFL stay tough, he will be gone, in my view, and it's goodbye to top flight rugby league in Wales for ever.

Do you think the game is that small then?

I don't, but the club should have been allowed to grow naturally. Celtics have got the best chance of all, but they haven't attracted much local interest, and do you think anyone else will financially back a Welsh club again if Celtics fail? I want the game to grow, but maybe we get to a point where we realise that people won't change their sporting habits. No British expansion club could be said to have succeeded.

Catalan is a different issue. They are in a heartland area and it is two clubs merged. Let a Welsh side grow

I certainly agree the RFL were a bit premature in what happened with regard their SL status.
Altho' it could be argued the top 2 from NL1 got promoted, that wasn't why.
And it will be difficult. Let's face it. after 10 years we haven't set the place on fire.
But if we can't get this expansion thing right, I fear the worse for the SKY sponsored sport we have become.
The Celtic 6 doesn't help either, but there does seem to be a willingness down there that I hope we(as a sport) can support, as we(Trinity) ourselves have been in the past.

I for one think our game is small, not on a negative or bad way, a well kept secret if you like. Our growth needs to be generic, outpost clubs have generally proved to be difficult to sustain, if expansion is the be all and end all, then strengthening our current outpost clubs would seem like a more sensible approach and then slowly beyond.
I agree catalans is a success, and as long as it proves to be self sufficient the it's as good as any m62 club, but bankrolling clubs just to prove a point is a nonsence.

As has already been mentioned, Catalans are not an expansion club in the truest sense. They are right in the French heartlands of RL therefore had a greater grounding to be able to make a fist of it, and they still struggled in their first season.

Personally I thought the club could’ve done with another three years building in the Championship, but the RFL wanted them in so they are in. Now they are the RFL should support them and not drop the club. Supporters from the traditional clubs will bemoan the bias but it needs to be done.

We have a habit of throwing the towel in on conceptions if they are not a burgeoning success with a year or two, they is a long term project. Union added Italy into the 5 Nations tournament and after much derision and hammerings they now are a fairly handy outfit who’ll give the other five nations a game at home. If this had been RL they would’ve been ditched after a year.

Let’s see where they are in maybe six years and then we can make a judgement on the feasibility of a Welsh RL club.

It only "needs" to be done, of you think that they should be in, in the first place, at the expence of other clubs.