Seen two games today where the momentum, if not the result, has been altered due to a bit of biff!

I have wanted to see us exchange a few 'handbags' on occasion - when we've looked like we're not firing on all cuylinders. Today the disruption at BV definitely benefited Celtic - regardless of who's fault it was - and then tonight it benefited Shudds, when the game was going adrift.

On the basis of the these offerings - I maintain that there are occasions when this can be of benefit!



[size=59I know this might not win the mayoral election now![/size

Agreed 100%, we should learn how to use this effective tactic, I dont mean like Magnet or Brassmoulders, but as seen today changing the momentum of a game completely.

Makes to crowd stand to attention too!

Indeed - it was very noticable how the crowd noise increased after the 'scrappage'

I'll give credit to your mate Korki - brings out the best in him I feel.

It's hardly difficult to learn, is it - [iWhen losing, try a bit of biff[/i

As far as effective is concerned, both Celtic and Huddersfield lost today. 2-0 against "scrappage".

The most effective tactic is to play the better rugby and be the better side. Scrappage? You know you've lost it when you have to result to scrappage.

It was poor from Trin though.

We were hammering them, but they have some big tough guys. Fighting them gives them a chance of winning at something and gets the wound up to play better.

Obviously you should always defend yourself and even come back harder, but they drew us in to a battle for 20 mins that we should have just walked away from. Swing the ball wide and make them look silly is best answer to that.

But you've only seen one game - and the point is that there was no benefit to the side winning - in fact in both games it handed the initiative to the opposition. It can have the same effect as the proverbial 'rocket' at half time.

Our game was never in danger, but I reckon we lost 12-18 points because of the distraction and Celtic played their best rugby after the initial flare up.

Spot on. The main reason the scrap has a positive influence on the losing side is because it can make the better team lose focus. That said, it takes 2 to have a fight, and if you're winning the game comfortably and are stupid enough to disrupt your own momentum by getting involved in the niggle, you only have yourselves to blame. If you deploy it as a tactic when you're on the losing side, then you're obviously not focussed on the real job at hand. Bustng a few tackles, making a big hit - these all have the same galvanising effect on your team, and will do you more favours on the pitch than a potential sending off / suspension would.

I didn't form my opinion on scrappage on the basis of the Huddersfield v Bradford game alone, ta, and I was replying to Haywire, who suggested we should learn how to use it as an effective tactic. It's not an effective tactic, IMO, and if it's the only one you have when you start the game, then you should be on the end of a decent hiding by the end of it.

Rather than learn how to use this negative tactic effectively, our Scrap Management Policy should focus on how to exploit a team that uses this tactic and hand them what they deserve. As I stated in another post, IMO there are more effective ways of showing commitment and leadership on the field when things aren't going your way than starting a scrap.

I forgot to put a

after the bit about only seeing the one match.



I haven't suggested for one minute that this should be our starting tactic - but how many times have you seen a side get into a rut during a game and wanted them to get out of it - or at least disrput the oppostions flow. A little 'over-spilled passion' at times like that can help some sides and, imo, it helped both Giants and Celtic yesterday and we were indeed guilty of getting sucked in and losing the plot.



I do realise that you'll never change your view on this one!

Don't think anybody was suggesting that this should be our sole tactic when starting the game?

The point is that the complexion and momentum of both games seemed to change significantly at the time of the scrapping - and I would hazard a guess (without checking for certain) that the scoreline 'post scrap' favoured the teams who where loosing at the time. In my opinion Huddersfield where almost dead and burried before the Semi/Crabtree incident, and that gave them the lease of life that gave them the chance of winning - as it happens I think time beat them in the end and had there been another 10 mins in the game they would have pipped Bradford. I also reckon that the last 25 mins or so (when this tactic was being used) was 12-12 in terms of score, at a point when you could have reasonably expected us to run away with the game.

The point about knowing how to use this tactic was that we need to know which games to use it in, and the fine balancing act of when to use it (if at all) - how extreme do you go? Its a fine line between general thuggary and playing this type of game - and I suggest (as TRB does) that if we can get this delicate combination right we could find a way to get ourself out of a hole when our other tacticts aren't working.

What about when you are playing a side that is better than you playing better rugby? For a 'lower' side such as ours that doesn't have the best players (Saints or Leeds) or even the best work ethic/team spirit (Hudds?) we need to try and find a way to beat the so called 'better' sides without having to reply as heavily on them having an off day to increase our chances.

In Barrie McDermott's autobiography, he said that they used it as a deliberate tactic in GB games when playing against the Aussie, because he said it would fire up the crowd, disrupt the Aussies, and kickstart their own game. He said that the plan was that at the first scrum, Terry O'Connor would look at his opposing prop, say "what did you just call me". When met with bemused looks, the fists would start to fly, and then it would turn into a full-blown GB-Aus game.

The problem was that in the game in which it was supposed to happen, GB took an early lead, so they had to wait until the second half before the masterplan was deployed.

If it helps RebelRebel, I think we went on to narrowly lose the game.