You make a very interesting point, I myself stand around half way back midway between the sticks and the corner. His positioning, angles of attack, hand position and offload/passing ability was clear for me, and those around me to see - you could tell this by the shouts of "wrap him up" and "clamp the ball" when he got it.

err...bit unfair you ask me a question and then you make it impossible to answer without being accused of trying to get the last word in - come on play fair.

Anyway your basically wrong with both theories mainly because I think you haven't read the thread properly - easily done.

I don't know whether Bird has class because I haven't got Sentanta and haven't seen the NRL for a few years. Thus I can't honestly give a reasoned opinion of his genuine ability after seeing him play for just 60mins. What I will say is what I actually said to TRB which started all this - there was nothing and I mean nothing in his perfrormane in my Knacker of an opinion that waranted the OTT description of awesome. Nor was there enough IMO in what he showed to suggest he will be "awesome" jet lagged or not.

What I did see was a typical example of an NRL pro, good basics, confidence and general ability. If he becomes awsome then fine no issues but it will take a bit more than that to convince me - I really don't know why you are so defensive on this issue - are you related.

Before I go I'll add one more into the mix. If you had arrived on sunday from mars and watched Bird play not knowing him from Adam would you have considered him better than JD or Martin who were playing a similar role for us. Be honest you wouldn't, you would probably have gone for JD. I'm clearly not saying overall JD is better than a full International test player overall but yesterday he was.

Sorry Haywire but all you are going on for now is reputation you haven't seen enough of him in SL IMHO for it to be otherwise, take his reputation away and he was just one of the better Catalan players on the day.

Shouldnt there be a "IMHO" part on the end of "yesterday he was"



I'm not differing OT by debating the games of JD and GB yesterday.

I was going on him also winning 3 points in the LE Goldthorpe Medal thing and Bird getting none, so it isn't just an IMHO to be honest

Not a chance - this guy is special - and he will turn many a game.

You lost the arguement a little when you described Trent Barrett as 'ordinary' (or words to that effect). Wigan without Trent are nowt - but if they had a little Birdy in there, it would be very different.

I was genuinely scared when he had the ball - fortunately our side were good enough to cut down his opportunities in the second half.

Question for Vasty...

Why make a big song and dance about Wakey fans making more of another teams player than our own hero's, then contribute probably more than anyone to make the thread about another teams player grow..

Replies by Vasty on Greg Bird thread (another teams player) = 20

Replies by Vasty on Dale Ferguson thread (one of our hero's who was great the other day) = 2

Right, we're getting somewhere. I take your point about reputation, but I don't have the NRL either - and comparing him with JD/Fergy/Martin is tricky. But the whole point is we do have prior knowledge, prior knowledge that told us he has hardly trained, that told us he had literally stepped off a plane, that told us he was playing for only the second time in a pivitol position and also told us he had only a handful of minutes of competitive sport in the last Christ knows how many months - forming an opinion without taking this into account is foolish.

I don't have Setanta, I can't recall ever seeing him play - I am not silly enough to form an opinion on reputation and hype. I am not a starstruck schoolboy enfatuated by the NRL or its players - I base the opinion on what I saw, and based on that he looks one hell of a player - despite the prior knowledge I have of him rather than becuase of it.

Come on - Trent Barrett underperformed for Wigan in virtually every match he played in especially the big ones. He was always one of there better performers as you would expect, but IMO never lived up to expectation. However both of us are entitled to our opinions on that player as we both saw him play in SL regularily. One of us is right one is wrong...

In the case of Bird what you are saying isn't even opinion it's pure speculation based on reputation and that is where you and a few others have lost it. Saying if Wigan had Bird they would be better, again pure speculation - no matter how good a player is there is no guarantee. Sure you'd expect them to be better, when they signed Barrett you would have expected a trophy or two. This really is grass is greener stuff.

If you are seriously suggesting you saw enough on sunday to confirm your belief then all I can say is please give me your guess for next weeks lottery.



Anyway you just ignore me you normally do, what do I know

Question for you - why not read the full thread before commenting. My initial and rather reasonable response was questioning TRB description of Bird as "awesome" which still tickles me.

The rest snowballed from a bunch of people who have an obsession with any players other than our own, usually Aussies who are always bigger, better, stronger and smell nicer than our own.

I have been told I'm a knacker because I won't join in with their rather sad almost sheep like worship at the feet of a reputation on legs.

Maybe it's me, maybe I should go with the flow, maybe I should just be impressed with Bird because some folk say he is great and is now the dominant player in SL.

If Bird was so great on sunday as has been suggested then please can someone pray tell me why he didn't get 123 in the Goldthorpe match award, coming behind Bibey for one! If he was so awesome I'd have thought they would have given him the award outright



People have come on here all bolshy and demanding I retract my thoughts, I won't and I'll post on this thread as much as I wish if that's ok with you

In his first season Trent Barrett was head and shoulders the best player in the SL, he may have had his quiet days when the team was getting battered but much of that was due to the fact he was playing with such a poor Wigan side. When the shackles were taken off him usually when Noble had no option but to allow the team to chase a game he was simply outstanding, I am not sure you will ever see a better display in SL of a 6 in the comeback game vs Bradford in the playoffs, without Barrett Wigan would have sank to the depths they have at the moment 2 years earlier, without Barrett Noble certainly would not have a job at Wigan, he papered over the cracks of what is a poorly coached team and was intrumental in every single game Wigan won in his 2 years at the club.

Greg Bird is not as natural a ball player as TB but he is more robust, and as a more natural secondrow has a stronger carry. Just like with TB any team in SL would stand a chance of a top 4 finish with him in the side.

I am not sure what Barrett had to do in some peoples eyes to be considered a top quality 6, especially given in his first year he was selected as the best 6 in the world, but personally after a slow by his standards start to last year he was head and shoulders the most naturally talented player in the league. I expect Greg Bird to hit the same heights, if he is here long enough.

I was not at the game on Sunday so have no valid take on why people rate Bird's performance, but i would expect it is because although his contribution may not have been outstanding, given the circumstances they saw some examples of the sublime skills and ability he has, that i feel will destroy some teams single handedly this year. In effect Trinity probably got him and Les Cats at the best time possible.

Can I propose an arbitrated settlement? Allbeit without the arbitration

Lets start with the common ground - we all accept that there is a chance that Bird will make a big impression on super league.

Vastman is within his rights to form an opinion on other posters evaluation of Brid. In this instance he is entitled to question an assersion that Brid was awesome on Sunday. He is also entitled to his opinion that some posters are overly quick to 'buy' a reputation and not make their own judgement based on their own observations. Further he is entitled to feel agrieved on behalf of our players that we run a thread to many pages about an opponants player.

At the same time other posters are entitled to believe that Bird is awesom and was awesome on Sunday.

I have to say Bird was impressive, all be it clearly underdone. Not awesome but displaying of sufficient nouse, skill, strength and organisation to suggest that he will make a big impact.

I agree with that assesment, it's brilliant(ish).

Don't agree with that for starters, yet another one of your ridiculous no compromise statements that leave no room for reasoned debate. Try putting IMHO behind it and then people like me won't assume you to be arrogant.

So is it an in your opinion or is it an I'm jonh I know everything?

B*gger I've started it all off again

Agree with everything you have said.

Thanks John for writing a coherant arguement. Nice to see.

It was the opinion of his fellow players both that he played with and against, and the opinion of the Professional Coaches and Journalists who selected him as the best 6 in the world. The fact he was over looked for an impact hooker for MOS suggests there were certain agenda's at work on that one.

Not starting anything again, the evidence is there and supported by what i have wrote.

Feel free to get on your high horse all you want Vastman, it still does not remove from the fact that in 2007 he was easily the best player in the comp.

P.S. Do you write IMHO or say it prior to every opinion you voice? It must be odd talking to you, i would assume seeing as i have writen it regardless of the supporting evidence they are words credited to me and clearly are my opinion. IMHO



IMHO it would be very odd speaking to someone who felt the need to qualify there thoughts by saying IMHO whenever it was deemed necessay. IMHO.

Ok, I know you are referring to myself and others on here, I would like to know who you think I have an obsession with outside of WTWRLFC and Greg Bird? (your opinion not mine)

I would also like to know which other players with a big reputation, I follow like a sheep ?

And the personal Insults are not required.

Because Jonh it is just your opinion, it's something you continually get wrong and what continually annoys. You come on here and talk as if you're a somebody but you're a nobody like the rest of us. Once you realise this you will be a happier person.

It simply is your opinion, it may be shared by others but it's still only an opinion. For me I'd say how the hell can Barrett man of plastic have been the best player in SL in 2007 when he played in a team that won feck all, and bottled it in the big games get real. However that is just my opinion all be it one shared by a few others.

Your continued Wigan obsession still amuses, why is it always adopted fans who are the most defensive. Must be really hard to bare at the moment

Nice to see you were as quick to leap to the defence of others when they were referred to as "knackers". Nice double standard.

I was referring to the general British RL publics obsession with all things Australian and their seemingly endless desire to heap praise on them. Yet at the same time being far harder on our own boys. I don't especially feel you fall in that catagory, I certainly don't feel TRB does but what can I do if you feel that way.

There are no personal insults in my post, it's humour, perhaps it's poor but there you go at least I didn't call you a "knacker". Hell you'd be up in arms if I did...oh hold on you wouldn't

Turncoat? Of course it is my opinion and the opinion of those in a better position to judge than both ourselves. Would never describe myself as a nobody, but I am fully happy to admitt i have no links with any club, i am a fan of the game just like everyone else.

I do not see how i am defensive at all to be honest i am more critical of Wigan than most from other clubs let alone as a supporter of the club.

It is really hard to bare and as i have stated on several occasions to see a team with the quality in the club that there clearly is play so poorly is genuinely making me fall out of love with the club, infact sadly across the board i think the quality of the product is a sad state of affairs. I currently look forward more to the NRL coverage than any SL game be it on tv or in the flesh.

I actually agree with your sentiments on this thread, but sadly its your inability to recognise or credit any other team than Trinity and the way you put that does you no harm, for somebody moaning about this thread and the length of it its quite ironic given you are the main poster running with it.

Everyone has an opinion, are you saying opinions cannot be wrong or right, when you consider the evidence to back them up? Barrett was voted the Players Player of the Year, The Top 6 in the World all opinions but pretty weighty evidence to back up my opinion.

What is interesting is that you have such an anti Greg Bird stance, do you watch the NRL, i think perhaps those that saw the quality in his game knew what to look out for having seen him play on several occasions in the past, with a bit of background knowledge, something perhaps you lack on this topic?

If you were not so bitter and one eyed i am sure you would be a more valid poster. IMHO

Ok, so you agree he was impressive, all be it clearly underdone, not awesome but displaying sufficent nouse, skill, strength and organisation to suggest he will make a big impact ?!!!!!!

However on
- page 1, you agree with adam that you didnt notice him.
- page 7, you werent impressed
- page 9, there wasnt enough on show to warrant that he "will be" awesome

So either you agree he will make a big impact, or are you of the opinion that there wasnt enough on show yesterday.
Flaws in your argument here Vastman.

this thread is a good substitue for nytol

He's dismissing these opinions on Barrett however using the same type of media (journalists) to back up his opinion that bird didnt play well yesterday from the 1-2-3 ratings by league express, A bit Selective there !

I agree!!

Same goes for me Vastman, do I fit into this bracket? If its not me or mwildcats that do (the ones you are primarily argueing with) who is?

For the record, I accused some opinions and posts on this thread as being 'knackers', not personally insulting the posters.