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| Quote ="Mugwump"Hatton's problem is there is no-one out there BIG enough to fight him who he can beat.
Mayweather - would be another slaughter.
Pac - almost killed him last fight.
Mosley - Hatton is made for him.
Marquez - countered to death.
Cotto - even shot is too big.
Possibly Margarito to play the villain - but he's WAY too big, even without plastered hands.
Clottey, Berto, Bradley? None of them are NAMES and all of them are dangerous. The risk-reward ratio is too high.
He could, of course, take on a tomato can. But who wants to see that?
Ooops ... I forgot Khan. That WOULD be a huge fight - but even with Amir's dubious chin, those fast hands working to plan laid out by Roach, a guy who has Ricky's game figured out to the full stop?'"
I see it pretty similar. Khan would stop Hatton in the mid rounds IMO. Hatton couldn't handle the speed and volume of punches and the only chance Hatton would have would be to start quick and get Khan on the ropes.
Marquez seemed the most genuine option for Ricky, but I wouldn't want to see that either.
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| Quote ="Mugwump"37 pages for the wrestling thread.
7 for boxing.
The Russians should have first-striked us when they had the opportunity.'"
There's still time for that.
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| Harrison's Europian title fight is off as the Polish champion has been given a shot against Vitali. Vitali continues to pad his record before packin it in.
Khan - Mallinaggi has now been confirmed. Rumours that Ortiz - Campbell (Nate) will be on the undercard.
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| Quote ="upthecats"Word on the street is that Hatton has decided to call it a day, expected to be in the papers tomorrow. Hope it's true and the correct decision for me...'"
Hatton has denied this, and says he is training hard
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| Hatton won't pack in until he sees how the Mayweather v Mosley and Pac v Clottey fights mix up. The defeated party in either might choose Hatton because he's a boxing cash cow.
But Hatton's living in dreamland thinking he can take any of the above on. His punch resistance is gone. His head movement is gone. The hurtful bodywork that was for so many years his trademark is now a distant memory. And on top of this he currently looks like he's 40lbs above fighting weight.
I suppose Marquez is an option. He is nowhere near as comfortable as Pac at the higher weights. Against Floyd he was like a gnat trying to hurt a horse. Although he wasn't helped by Floyd's blatant disregard of the weight he was contracted to make.
Hatton retains enough power to hurt Marquez (who isn't too difficult to put down but practically impossible to knock out), but his wide, front-on aggressive style would leave him wind open to Marquez's lethal counters. I don't think Marquez can stop him, but he can certainly bust him up.
Paulie will be a good test for Khan. Amir's chinny, but Paulie can't break an egg with his punches (his hands are powder-like these days). On the other hand, Paulie is pretty quick, and if he gets his jab going and he can hit with more than just Andrex with his other he could well give Amir a few problems.
Amir has to be the favourite. His defence has improved out of site. His hands are up there with the fastest in the sport and he's now beginning to plant his feat and torque both his legs and body into the punch. If he fights to Roach's plan he'll put a clinical beatdown on Ricky.
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| You can understand Hatton wanting one more big fight after his last performance. To lose in round 2 was very embarrassing and I'm sure if he faced Marquez he'd give a better performance. His display against Malignaggi shows that he still has something left in him. The problem is, he needs to realise he isn't an elite fighter and there is no point in trying to convince himself or anyone else otherwise.
I can't see Malignaggi causing Khan too many problems. He is tailor made for Khan in both style and his reputation and Roach wouldn't put him against him if this wasn't the case. That's why he's avoided Maidana for now, far too risky at this stage of Khan's career. Malignaggi isn't.
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| Quote ="Blobbynator"You can understand Hatton wanting one more big fight after his last performance. To lose in round 2 was very embarrassing and I'm sure if he faced Marquez he'd give a better performance. His display against Malignaggi shows that he still has something left in him. The problem is, he needs to realise he isn't an elite fighter and there is no point in trying to convince himself or anyone else otherwise.'"
Hatton was an excellent fighter. A double-weight world champion. Ring Magazine. Lineal. Held his belt for years. Fought and won in America. Only went out against two of the modern greats. But he was never elite. His biggest win was against Tszyu. Tszyu was on the verge of being elite at his peak (he blew his chances of true greatness when - whilst lined up to fight Oscar - he was KOd by Vince Phillips). Remember, Kostya was talking of getting out of the sport two years before the fight and his game was on the slide. Not a steep slide to be fair, but the direction was definitely downhill. And let's not forget that Hatton got away with some extremely dubious roughouse tactics in that fight (at times I half expected him to pick Kostya up and tombstone him - Undertaker-style). Tactics that in the US (and other countries) would have seen him docked one or several points - perhaps even disqualified. The Tszyu camp's post-fight comments were seen as sour grapes - but they did have something of a point. But I guess you live and die by the rules on the night.
Where Ricky succeeded was in becoming the first ELITE boxing draw from Britain - the only man in boxing who could be relied upon to sell out any venue and reel in millions on PPV. How he managed to achieve this whilst never once being seen fighting on terrestrial TV is a bit of a mystery. I suppose part of it was down to his cheerful "everyman" personality, his affiliation with the beer-swilling working man and Manchester (City). But the rest of it? There isn't a promoter on the planet who wouldn't kill to know that.
Quote I can't see Malignaggi causing Khan too many problems. He is tailor made for Khan in both style and his reputation and Roach wouldn't put him against him if this wasn't the case. That's why he's avoided Maidana for now, far too risky at this stage of Khan's career. Malignaggi isn't.'"
I like Paulie. He's no bum. His hands let him down in the Hatton fight. IIRC, he blew out his right in the first round. After that he was easy meat (although there was a time in the fifth round when he started to cause Ricky problems with his accurate jab). Against Cotto he put up one of the bravest performances I've seen in many years. Cotto pounded the phuck out of him and yet he still hung in there are tried to fight back.
If Malignaggi could just keep his hands in one piece he'd be P4P - no doubts about it. He says they're better now through treatment. I hope so, because if they are he'll give Amir problems. He's quick, defensively sound, has a good chin and a belter of a jab. I'd rather Amir take on a prime Paulie and not the one who was practically defenceless against Hatton. That would be a great fight. One which would give Khan a real idea of what it's like to take on top level opposition. He needs that kind of experience before he goes in (probably) against Marquez, whose counters are capable of knocking him into another phucking dimension.
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| It's a sad indication that one of Paulie's career highlights was his performance against Cotto when his face got smashed to pieces. His best win was a points victory against Lovermore N'Dou and maybe his recent win against Diaz.
I'll give him his due, his last win against Diaz was pretty good and I thought he had him the time before that aswell. But for me without any punching power he'll never be a P4P fighter, and even though Khan's chin isn't the best (although I don't think it's as bad as some make it), I don't think Paulie will come anywhere close to a knockdown, whereas Khan has the power and speed to do it.
I think Khan will win by UD or late stoppage.
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| Agree with Mugwump re: Hatton. Good summation.
Khan Mallinaggi will be interesting but like Blobby, I can't see anything other than a Khan win.
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| I know Roach is trying to build up Khan's confidence, but sooner or later he's going to have to put him in with someone who can dig. I know there's been talk of Maidana as a possible opponent and he is seen by many as a threat. But I'm not convinced by Maidana. Yes, he's got good stopping power - but beyond that there's not much else. If Khan keeps his gloves up in that Floyd Patterson peek-a-boo style and fights at distance it will be a massacre. There's talk of Valero coming up from Lightweight, but I don't think Roach will fancy a piece of that. Besides, I can't see it being long before Khan moves up to stabilize at Welterweight. By then I think Cotto, Pac, Floyd and Mosley will have moved on leaving a pretty barren division for Khan to do what he likes in. I don't see Lamont Peterson or Devon Alexander posing much of a threat. But Bradley is dangerous. He reminds me a bit of Marvin Hagler. Not a devastating puncher, but a good boxer who is hard as nails. Bradley v Khan would be a great match. Andre Berto gets a lot of good press, but I watched him against Collazo and he stank the place out. Saul Alvarez is the new kid on the block. He's got talent, but he's still very raw. And that's about it. Khan is fortunate to be arriving just at the right time. There isn't anyone really who is a definite no-no - not even Valero, who has padded his KO ratio with more than a few tomato cans over the years. Provided Khan keeps his head together and doesn't repeat the suicide heroics of the Prescott fight he'll be fine.
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| Abit off track here, but........
....As I read this thread I am doing an assignment on boxing in schools and where boxing will be in 5 years time in relation to education.
Now it's in for tomorrow morning, but just thought I would ask anyway, what your views on this subject matter are?
Interesting one really imo, because I remember games I played at school (only 6/7 years ago), and some of the adapted games we were told to play by the teacher were rougher than boxing.
some however argue, the sport should be no where near schools.
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| Looking forward to Friday Fight Night tonight. Paul Smith, Kell Brook, and Enzo (I think) all on. If Enzo gets beat again its time to give it up.
Also I notice Enzo Calzaghe is retiring. Good luck to him, I still think he's been the most overrated trainer in the sport. I think Joe Calzaghe achieved all he did inspite of his father's influence.
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| I'll be interested to see how Kell Brook does tonight. Alot of potential in that fighter.
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| Quote ="Money Mayweather"Looking forward to Friday Fight Night tonight. Paul Smith, Kell Brook, and Enzo (I think) all on. If Enzo gets beat again its time to give it up.'"
The first two should be ok (Enzo is a yard dog). Still not entirely sure about Brook - more over his early Brendan Ingle programming than anything else. Ingle moulded some excellent attacking fighters during the 80s and 90s that were all hamstrung to some lesser or greater extent by their defensive weaknesses. Instead of teaching them to hold their gloves up, elbows protecting the short rib, keep their head moving at all times etc. he taught them to rely solely on their reflexes and draw the other fighter onto them with stupid clown tricks. You can get away with that in the lower leagues, but top level fighters aren't top without having equally fast reflexes. Whilst Naz was sharp (before he went to America and indulged in every taboo activity imaginable) he had the reflexes to get away with pricking about. But the moment those reflexes started to let him down he found he was getting caught. The writing was definitely on the wall when a shot Kevin Kelley had him down three times (although he was never really hurt, IMO) and then it wasn't long before Barerra put him out of the sport with a boxing masterclass (Naz had ditched Ingle by then and gone with Emmanuel Steward, although he never turned up for training). Herol Graham was another. He gave Mike "The Bodysnatcher" McCallum (who for me is one of the modern greats) fits in his world title fight but conceded too many easy shots through "Ingle" defence. Soon after he boxed the LETHALLY powerful Julian Jackson's head off for four rounds and then walked straight onto a regulation bomb like an amateur (if you HAVEN'T seen this KO, find it on Youtube - it's in my top 5 of all time). Ryan Rhodes was another - tipped as the new Naz when he arrived on the scene. The results were depressingly familiar until he ditched Wincobank and got himself a trainer who knew something about holding hands high.
So, I'm withholding judgement on Brook. He IS very talented. But if he starts clowning around in the ring with that old Wincobank style it won't be long before someone puts him on queer street.
Quote Also I notice Enzo Calzaghe is retiring. Good luck to him, I still think he's been the most overrated trainer in the sport. I think Joe Calzaghe achieved all he did inspite of his father's influence.'"
Enzo taught himself boxing - and you can tell. If you listen to him it's clear he hasn't much tactical appreciation of the sport. I mean, this is the guy who sent Calzaghe into the ring against Bernard Hopkins with "no plan". Hopkins sure had a plan and if it weren't for the Joe's chin and FREAKISH recovery powers he'd have been out of there within three minutes.
Where I do give Enzo credit is in completely overhauling Joe's fighting style once it was established that his hands were shot. Joe went from being a big-hitting brawler to a beautiful high-octane boxer who could switch fighting styles, bamboozle his opponents with weird angles and maintain a blistering punching rate.
I'm sure if you asked Enzo how he achieved this he'd struggle to explain. Which is the reason his other fighters can't repeat it. ATEOTD - Joe & Enzo were the perfect union in training. Apart the magic just doesn't work.
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| Can't wait for the Pac v Clottey fight. My prediction:
Pac wins via TKO in the eighth after being put on the canvas by Clottey - twice.
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| Clottey weighs in 147lbs, Pacman at 145 3/4lbs. Apparently Clottey could weigh around 160lbs tonight.
My prediction - Pacman to stop Clottey in round 10.
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| Pacman in the 5th....too much power and too quick for Clottey I reckon!
Pleased for 'Smigga' last night...
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| Nice to see Clottey & Pac having fun at the weigh-in. I can't see Pac putting more than a couple of pounds on for tomorrow. But Clottey looks worryingly big to me. Pac MUST get him out as quick as he can. He CANNOT afford to get into a twelve round war with a Super Middle. I'm sure he can win such, but at what cost when he's looking to sign off against Mayweather (or - heaven forbid - Mosley, who I think Roach fears most of all)?
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| See Sky Sports 'breaking news' is that Hatton is to announce hir retirement soon, only 4 days behind me! My sources are good....
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| Quote ="upthecats"See Sky Sports 'breaking news' is that Hatton is to announce hir retirement soon, only 4 days behind me! My sources are good....'"
Just seen it. Right decision in the end, but at the same time, gutted. I've always been a fan of boxing, but without Hatton I wouldn't be as big a fan of it as I am now. Experiencing the atmosphere at one of his fights was very special and something I'll never forget. Bit of a blow to go out with such a bad defeat, but if his heart isn't in it anymore then he'd only make things worse by carrying on.
There's only one Ricky Hatton!
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| What time are we expecting Pacquiao to get into the ring tonight?
Coverage starts at 2am so I'm assuming closer to 4am?
As for the fight, I think Pacquiao will win by knock out, probably between rounds 6 and 8, but the size Clottey's going into the fight has to be a worry, as has been said, I don't think it would suit Manny to stand toe to toe and brawl with a guy close to a stone heavier than him; he needs to use his speed.
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| I'd say around 3AM is a good bet.
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| Good performance by Pac against a tough, tough guy. Clottey didn't offer enough, although I don't think he was ever seriously hurt. Bizarrely, it was Pac's face rather than Clottey's which seemed to have taken the most damage.
I'm not sure who is the bigger danger to Pac, now. I'm positive Roach would prefer to fight Mayweather - although it's not like Floyd will be a pushover. Mosley will be a problem for Pac because he's every bit as tough as Clottey, but there's no way he's going to stand there and let Pac use him as a punchbag. Shane will attack from the beginning and Manny's going to have to think about his defence. When Clottey did choose to attack it seemed like he could catch Manny pretty easily (especially with the uppercut). Manny cannot afford to get into a slugfest with a guy who battered Antonio Margarito into submission.
It's impossible to write Floyd off - but I think he'll have to KO Manny to win. I can't see Floyd out-working Pac, which means he's going to have to fight. Floyd's a tough guy himself - I've only ever seen him hurt twice - against Judah and Corley. He'll catch Manny pretty easily - but can he a) catch him often enough and b) take the kind of heat Manny will bring down on him?
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| Quote ="Mugwump"It's impossible to write Floyd off - but I think he'll have to KO Manny to win. I can't see Floyd out-working Pac, which means he's going to have to fight. Floyd's a tough guy himself - I've only ever seen him hurt twice - against Judah and Corley. He'll catch Manny pretty easily - but can he a) catch him often enough and b) take the kind of heat Manny will bring down on him?'"
I thought the same myself. Whilst Manny didn't really land that clean on Clottey he was landing solid punches and he'd do the same against Mayweather. Mayweather would have to pull something special out of the bag to beat Pacman, he's an absolute freak. His workrate, speed and angle of punches is unrivalled. He also has an unbelievable chin and would be very difficult to knock out.
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| Quote ="Blobbynator"I thought the same myself. Whilst Manny didn't really land that clean on Clottey he was landing solid punches and he'd do the same against Mayweather. Mayweather would have to pull something special out of the bag to beat Pacman, he's an absolute freak. His workrate, speed and angle of punches is unrivalled. He also has an unbelievable chin and would be very difficult to knock out.'"
People seem to forget that Mayweather himself is extremely difficult to catch up with.....Most of Pacquaio's recent opponents have been straight forward fighters with little defence, meaning that Manny has looked particularly awesome with his lightening fast combinations.
Let's remember, Mayweather would be moving, and moving fast...Pac-man's 5 shot combos, which at the moment look fantastic, would likely be missing the majority of the time, resulting in an inevitable tiring, as nothing wears a man out more than punching fresh air.
I could easily see Mayweather weathering an early storm and actually overwhelming a tiring Pacquaio, whose own defence is certainly questionable.
I agree its as close to a 50-50 fight as you could ask for, but the idea that Mayweather has to KO Pacquaio to win is a complete fantasy....Mayweather is the most complete boxer of the present generation and I'm sure that being the supremely intellegent guy that he is, he would be able to use a strategy to combat Pacquaio.
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