Are we coached at all? To say the majority of this team know each other well, we are embarrassingly clueless with the ball.

I'd love SW to sit me down with a highlight reel of Sam Powell and explain just what he offers.

Some people are hard to please. We have been totally dominant, unlucky with the VR and one pass away from scoring several more. That will have taken a lot out of Leeds who have done very well to stay in the game so far. So far we are doing the basics very well, winning possession and position and a few dropped balls away from being about 20 up and you call them terrible?

As a Leeds fan id said you were doing

Good n defence
Good in returning kicks
Good in making metres
Disappointing once you're in the final 20m

But understandable with the pivots you've got missing.

I expect a certain standard of rugby from one of the top tier teams. We are working hard against the worst Leeds team in a long time. To be only 6 points up with all this possession is garbage. If we had half an idea we would be 20 points up now.

It isn't hard to make yards against this Leeds team, it isn't hard to defend against this Leeds team. What you mention is nothing more than doing the basics, beyond that we are awful.

Leeds came to "park the coach"... Could only hold for so long... Worn em down. Credit to Leeds really that they held on as long as they did.

The combination of players who left and the injuries, no disrespect to the Leeds player tonight, but that team is dire. We have made something that should have been straight forward look very very hard.

28 - 6 against the treble winners from last year, terrible that is.

Last time i looked, they came with 17... I think you do Leeds an injustice. But some Wigan fans will never be happy, so i'll leave you too your misery, while i celebrate 5 from 5...

I'll be honest at 6-0 with all the field position/possession we had and how easily we were making yards I was disappointed to not have more points on the board. Of course we had one of our main pivots missing so it was always going to be a bit disjointed but had it not been for a bit of a Leeds collapse in the second half that lack of finishing in the final 20 could have come back to haunt us.

I was impressed with our Defence, Our discipline also seems like it has improved. and the postive is that when you consider we had the likes of Williams and Tomkins missing from an attacking point of view it can only get better.

as far as tonight is concerned we did what we needed to do to get the 2 points. Completely dominated Leeds up the middle. I've never seen us make such easy yards bringing the ball from our own line.

Leeds had 6 players missing and Wigan had 5 missing. I'd say we had more quality in the stands as well so we can be pretty pleased with that. We can play a dam sight better even with that 17 but you really can't grumble when you've comfortably beat any Leeds team.

The thread being started because we looked terrible in attack when we're shy of our 1,6 and 9 really is very harsh. If you consider you have five pivots in a team (1,6,7,9 and 13) and we were missing three of them in comparison to Leeds who were missing one in McGuire we really need to take some credit.

The fact that a thread like this has even been started is embarrassing.

We are definitely much, much stronger in defence this year. We're five games in now, so this is not some kind of fluke.

Leeds were weakened tonight, but so were we - and yet they barely threatened until the last minute, when a Yorkshire referee decided they couldn't leave without having some points on the board.

Something has definitely happened in the off-season to change that aspect of the Wigan performance, and for that the club deserves full credit. We were scrappy tonight in the first half for sure - losing a half just before kick-off could hardly have helped with that - but in terms of tackling, we looked well nigh impregnable, and that's always what wins you matches.

Having been miserable at the start of the year because we seemed so disjointed, I'm increasingly heartened. Dogged, hard-fought wins are still wins. At thei time of this writing, there are only two of us left in the league on full points, and that will be sorted out next week. Who could have predicted that at the start of the year?

I understand that non-fluid attacking play is frustrating - and there are one or two Wigan players who seem to be guilty of cocking things up time and again - but maybe that just needs a bit more practise. The good thing is that the hard work is being done. This time last year, it wasn't.

The Leeds collapse as you put it was caused by the pressure put on them by Wigan in the first half. I said to the Mrs at half time if I were a betting man I'd put mind on Wigan pulling away in the last 20. If we were a bit more clinical then we would have scored 50 last night. I'm not too concerned about that, what's important as the players are running decent lines and creating chances.

Tell me why you feel entertained, explain how you think our attack is great, the last third of last season and the start of this has been like watching a Brian noble team. Explain to me how a team that's has the same core of players and same coach can look so clueless and disjointed. I'd love you to explain that to me.

It's only the fact everyone else seems marginally worse than we are that these sub-par performances see us 5 from 5 and why the Aussies are light years in front of us. What is embarrassing is that fact we can play this badly in attack and not lose a game, it's embarrassing for SL as a whole.

If we were 5 from 5 and playing some great rugby I'd be on here commenting. If we were average I'd probably say nothing, the fact we seem to have no idea baffles me, hence the topic.

I agree 100% with you.
With so much possession last night we genuinely should have scored at least 50 points.
What I would say is that we have a great defence and will be very to beat. We will also be very hard to watch. The atmosphere in the first half was as lively as a Jewish pork pie shop.
There were a couple of positives for me though in that I thought Sutton and Gildart both played well and Clubb had his best game for quite a while.

There was little great football on show, and maybe that is a minor cause for concern, but you're wrong to suggest that was a poor performance. Wigan applied very strong defensive pressure on Leeds for the whole game. No one else in SL could have lived with that. Hence Leeds were exhausted just trying to get out of their own half. Hence they collapsed in the second half - in other words the plan worked.

Personally I thought Leeds were lucky not to be routed. They deserve some credit for that, though it was also our fault for forcing the pass now and then, taking the wrong option etc. We're not perfect but we are getting better by the week, with lots of quality still to return to action, and of course we've got a full set of points. I don't see how you can be as upset as you say you are.

I can't believe some of our "fans". We could go a season unbeaten, win everything including the WCC next year Yet some would find something to moan about.

I sit around a group each week who continually bag Tautai and say he's the worst prop we've ever had yet in my eyes, he's started this season well and you have to give him another chance yet they continue to go on and on.

The majority of the negative fans I come across seem to be still in the early 90s mindset where RL was completely one sided and we ran riot with no salary cap etc.

Get a grip and celebrate a great start to the season for a change!

I think you have hit the nail on the head.... Some of the negativity on here is laughable. The overall problem in the English SL is that there is not enough money in the game, so we can't bring in big names... Wane plays that situation as well as anyone with a broad based squad without stars. Lets not forget that the players we have injured are key players, ST, injuries permitting, has the potential to be the most effective and influential players in the league... 5 from 5 against the squads we have played against, and thats all you can play..

The Aussie clubs are light years in front of us because they can spent more then double what we can on the salary cap. They weren't light years in front when we pent more then them 10 years back.

As for our start and us having no idea, do you not cut the team some slack for the fact that we're missing a number of pivotal players? our two biggest attacking threats in Tomkins and Williams included?

We're a team built for the firmer and faster pitches of the summer and we always seem to start slowly. In performance terms its not been vintage but the results are fantastic. We will get better and better as the season goes on and we will challenge for honors. If that's an embarrassment to the league then so be it. Whilst the quality of superleague may be at a low, the number of young players being produced is surely at an all time high.

Spot on
Yes, we're playing ugly.
Yes, a lot of the squads we've been against are crocked.
Yes, we got lucky against the French in the rain on [ithat[/i pitch.
[iBut[/i, we're joint top with a game in hand over Widnes with a depleted first team and a bunch of kids and lumps in odd places.
Fer Feckin Sake: stop whingin' yer misanthropic, jaundiced, under the bridge dwelling (goat eating) prats.

You made me spit coffee all over my keyboard... -.-

The play always starts with the hooker(gone) and with your main attacking threat still injured (Tomkins) I'll expect a turn around (probably when you play us).
But you looked a little off in the last quarter of the pitch.
Partly down to execution rather than a lack of ideas.

True, but some don't want to see that... As was previously stated, some are still living in the past, when i did 500 sit-ups a day, and had thick lustrous hair... Times change..

Put it this way ...I would rather be a Wigan fan than a Leeds fan at the moment. The hallmark of a championship side is one that doesn't play that well at times, but still grinds out and gets the wins (a la some of the Leeds teams of recent years). Leeds fans knew they would miss Sinfield's game management/kicking and Peacock's leadership qualities...and losing McGuire too is a blow....but no excuses. You guys had Williams (a player I rate highly) pull out at the last minute and your recent new 'prop' filling in at SO. You also miss McIlorum (another one I rate highly). Success is cyclical and as a Leeds fan we have had some bloody good times in recent years...it's probably now somebody else's turn.
Wigan look a good bet for silverware this season ....BUT don't forget this year just well might be the year of the Wolves



(between you two for sure....subject to injuries, other unforseen circumstances)

As stated I am referring to the latter half of last year,not just the start of this. Of course I can see we are working hard, or course I can see our defense is working hard. Who can't? What I also see is a continuation of what I saw last season, was a lack of ideas once our one or two (predictable) set moves fail to come off. Lots of one out rugby and lots of dropped ball. This isn't an issue that has come about become we are missing a few players, I believe it's a part of our game that is getting worse, not better. Sorry if I'm seen as some as a stuck in the past living under a bridge goat eater, or whatever was said. I didn't realise having an opinion warranted people flipping out and getting personal.

My topic title could have been chosen a little better though I do agree. Maybe that provoked a few people.