So with the imminent England/Exiles games upon us I thought it would be time to start a thread on an ideal England team based on the current crop of players at our disposal considering form etc

1. S Tomkins
2. J Charnley
3. J Reed
4. R Atkins
5. R Hall
6. G Widdop ( GK)
7. J Lomax
8. J Graham
9. M Mcilorum
10. L Mossop
11. S Burgess
12. G Hock
13. S O loughlin (c)

14. L Burgess
15. G Ellis
16. LMS
18. J Roby

My only dilemma was starting Mike Mc in front of Roby. I feel he is more equipped to deal with the rough stuff early on bringing Roby in the interchange to rip it up the middle in the 2nd and 4th quarters. I went for LMS because frankly he has shown more heart at prop than many of the senior props ive seen of late and seems hungry. For me Peacock and Morley are past it to compete at international level. Our only real weakness is coaching, on paper we are strong but Mcbanana is clueless and doesnt know what to do with the talent we have.

I rate Lomax, highly. But their is no way he should be anywhere close to that team going off his form so far this season. Danny Brough should be the 7 for England, particularly as I think the partnership of Brough/Widdop has a lot of potential.

Aussie based players don't be coming will they?

Not liking your centres would say Goulding and Watkins. Forget LMS, Westwood would be a safe bet with Hock or Sam Burgess proping if need be.

Tom Briscoe will get the wing nod ahead of josh. Atkins hasnt made the squad

i was looking more at the ideal rather than what was available for the exiles game. I didnt explain myself correctly. The exiles game just prompted me thinking about England. I like the idea of a huge back row with 4 props. Hock and Burgess have been superb for theor clubs in the backrow so i personally wouldnt want them playing out of position when we have props that could do the job. I was torn between westwood and Ellis but went for Ellis as i think he has a little more class to his game and the robustness of Westwood is more than covered with Burgess and Hock. If Briscoe gets the nod over Josh id be gutted

Sentiment is a bad thing. Having 3 props seems to be the in thing now. It was ok last season with 12 interchanges but being down to 10 gives the 3 available more game time. This is why Hock is so useful for us as he has an impact wherever he plays. So to does Sam Burgess. Old tactics interchanging 4 props has gone, very Brian Noble esq. The bad thing is Noble taught McBanana all he knows so will be tactically inept.

Not a hope in hell of an international team turning out with only 1 Leeds player.

but the aussies have developed the tactic of having a 4th prop playing at 13 ala Gallen. The tactic isnt dead its just modified. We dont have that. We have to match them up front and with the engines that the likes of Graham have the interchange is irrellevant for me. We have to match them for size, we dont have a prop at 13 like the aussies use, so we need to utilise 4 props with 2 on the bench. Its how they are used that is the issue. With a monster back row of Hock and Burgess we will be able to lay the platform with size on the bench for our backs to cause problems.

I know this is mainly about the England squad as a whole, but I'm a little concerned about the strength of the side for the upcoming Exiles game.

If McNamara picks the side on form then there are quite a few players currently in the Elite squad that wouldn't be included.

The squad at the moment is...

Sam Tomkins
Tom Briscoe
Josh Charnley
Ryan Hall
Ben Jones-Bishop - Out of favour at Leeds, can't really be included on form.
Chris Bridge
Leroy Cudjoe
Zak Hardaker - He seems very hit and miss when I've seen him.
Kallum Watkins - Always injured so I'm guessing he won't play.
Kris Welham - Absolutely awful defensively. Shouldn't be in the squad.
Kirk Yeaman - Has he been injured? Shouldn't be included.
Rangi Chase - Not really on form but will probably be picked.
Danny McGuire - He's doing alright, but he wasn't good enough at his best.
Kevin Sinfield - Where does he fit in these days?
Danny Brough - Probably first choice, but his form has dipped a little in recent weeks.
Jonny Lomax - Hit and miss. Defensively weak. We need young halves though.
Ryan Bailey - Has good moments but can't say he's been very consistent.
Garreth Carvell - Not been too impressive this year.
Eorl Crabtree
Adrian Morley - Past his best?
Lee Mossop
Jamie Peacock - Same as Morley? Still a good workhorse forward though.
Rob Burrow - Where would he play? Not a hooker although might be used for impact.
Ian Henderson
Michael McIlorum
James Roby
Gareth Hock
Jamie Jones-Buchanan - Tried and tested, but has he offered much? Is someone else worth a go?
Ben Westwood
Jon Wilkin - See JJB.
Carl Ablett
Sean O'Loughlin

I can't say I'm overly convinced about the current Elite squad.

for me i would go as follows

1.Sam
2.Josh
3.Daz
4.Watkins
5.Hall
6.Widdop
7.Chase
8.Sam Burgess
9.McIllorum
10.Mossop
11.Hock
12.Ellis
13.Locky

14.Roby
15.Westwood
16.Graham
17. Harington

Coach Wane

Is that really the squad or is this a wind up? 11 (Eleven) Leeds players?

Watkins and Goulding over Reed ???

So i take it you didnt watch Origin 1. Paul Gallen was the best player on the field and was playing No 8 all the game. Greg Bird also impressed me and he was playing No 13. Neither of them are big guys but would love them both at Wigan. Your theory about 4 props is in the past, been tried and tested without success.

Exiles game-

Tomkins
Charnley Goulding Atkins Hall
Lomax Brough
Peacock McIlorum Mossop
Hock Westwood O'Loughlin

Subs Crabtree Hill Patrick Roby

1st choice including NRL players

Tomkins
Briscoe Atkins Reed Hall
Widdop Brough
Crabtree McIlorum Graham
Ellis Burgess O'Loughlin

Subs Westwood Mossop Hock Roby

I'd use the exciles games to widen our player pool and give out opportunities but ultimately I think the bottom side is our strongest. I'd have Peacock in for these two games coming up but probably use them as a send off for him as I can't for the life of me see how he'll be able to still cut it come the world cup.

This.

I did watch origin 1 but have also watched cronulla on numerous occassions this year where Gallen plays at 13. Its becoming an increasing trend to play a prop at 13 with a good engine to last the duration. Like I said, the 4 props tactic isnt dead just modified in effect having 3 on the field with 1 off the bench supported by 2 back rowers. We have to match their size and power but dont have a prop that could play the 13 role so we go with 2 on the bench. We dont match them up front we dont lay the platform we dont score the points. Its not a dead tactic, its not ancient, its how its used. Just rotating every 20 mins ala Noble is gone, with the 10 sub rule we need to manage the grafters with teh engine with the impact and with a huge back row in Burgess and Hock we are more than capable of busting them in the flanks without wasting them to fill in at prop by only selecting 3.

just a few short weeks ago on the VT fans of other clubs were laughing at people for even mentioning Mickey Mac. Now to most people he must be in with a massive shout.

Also certain people were suggesting that Sinfield should play over Lockers. If that happens then it will be an absolute joke. Sinfield has been terrible this season (add to the fact that when he plays well a side has to be built around him, and he isnt good enough for that to happen with england). Lockers is an all round much better player.

Forgot about Reed, Watkins out Reed in.

You will be hard pressed to find Gallen play. Cronulla have only been on Premier Sports 3 times out of 14 weeks so dont know where that comment came from. Quality players like Hock and Burgess are not wasted at prop. They just step up and compete even better.

Some of those players aren't in the squad (and I agree with everything C.P posted - the squad is a joke). The team vs Exiles will probably be something like this imo:

Tomkins
Charnley Hardaker Bridge Hall
Lomax/Chase Brough
Mossop Roby Carvell
Hock Westwood
O'Loughlin

McIlorum Crabtree (lol) Peacock (lol) JJB/Wilkin/Sinfield

Poor!

The fact Banana doesn't include Atkins who has been fantastic in all but a couple of games shows him for the small minded tool he his.

Looks all around the globe for someone with a great uncles aunties nephews dog born in England yet has the talent on his door step.

I'm guessing the reason for Atkins not being included is him pulling out of the Four Nations at the end of last year. If so then fair enough but he should at least make that known.

Atkins needs a rugby brain, he may do very well in SL but he will never be a good international centre because he lack game smarts.

I'm sure he had his reasons [Atkins and now Banana is just being vindictive to the detriment of us the England fans.