I have noticed a few people mentioning how Nobby may have lost the dressing room and how some players may not want to play for him.

I may be a little old fashioned here but I find that sort of thing totally out of order, the players are paid to do a job and not to try and dictate who they play for. IMO if that is the agenda that some of the players have then they are every bit as guilty as Nobby and his tactics for our poor start to the season.

If the tactics/signings of the coach are not good enough then he will get found out sooner or later, I just don't like the idea that some players may have an agenda.

just a question

what if the players feel nobby's tactics are not right for the team and feel his methods have been tried and are not working.

nobby has had plenty of time to 'get things right' maybe his time is up

Fair comment on the face of it. However even the fans can see certain tactics are not working and some are plain daft! How must the players feel getting booed for carrying them out?

Good point and personally I do agree with you about his time being up or nearly up.

Maybe the players could approach IL with concerns about what is happening, assuming they have not done already that is.

I just am not sure that the players should be making a point on the field as it is not only the club and fans that suffer but surely the ability of the players comes into question.

when a sports team loses the plot (chelsea, warriors (milward), newcastle, etc) theres usually a dressing room revolt behind it.

surprising how the same players play better when a new manager arrives.

hapened with us when nobby took over, but he now seems losing it.

I think you're right in principle, but if the relationship between the coach and the players has completely malfunctioned, then you can only grin and bear it for so long - and the chairman has to make a decision for the benefit of the club.

The other problem is, how do we know whether this is true or not? Certain players report these things, but may actually mean that they [upersonally[/u are disenchanted (perhaps because they're not being selected enough) and only say that others feel the same way in order to strengthen their case. Other observers, who are not directly involved with the team, may report similar stuff because they too have axes to grind - either they've had their nose pushed out at some time in the past or because they are unofficial spokesmen for those one or two players we mentioned.

While there are several on here who've recently reported unhappiness behind the scenes, I know others who report that the atmosphere in the squad and at training is fine. There were similar contrasting stories last season, when the story broke that Trent Barrett and a couple of others were objecting to Noble's tactics. Other people, however, said that Barrett's attitude was based on self-interest and was causing disruption, and that those 'others' who were objecting were actually just being lazy and ill-disciplined, often using their 'annoyance with Noble' as an excuse to turn up late for training or even to miss it.

Two sides to every story, you see. I'd actually go as far as to be wary of any player or junior coach who moans openly about things going on in the club, as there's only one reason why they'd break these confidences to those who aren't supposed to know - and that's because they're using them as a tool to leak information.

So yes, when these situations develop, the players are often equally responsible. That said, it's not as easy to get rid of troublesome players as it is an underachieving coach, and the final buck stops with Noble when it comes to getting Wigan winning again. If the changing room relationship has genuinely deteriorated, there may only be one solution.

It is the same in any walk of life/management.

If you are at work and your manager is not delivering/giving you the wrong information/direction, you are hardly going to sit there and happily plod on when your livelyhood is on the line.

These are professional players, being treated with an amateur gameplan it is bound to cause unrest and a questioning of the coach.

If it has happened and he has lost the dressing room he can only blame himself as he clearly had it at one point unlike Millward apparently, as soon as he saw indications that the dressing room was being lost he should have sorted it, prior to it getting to a stage where it is totally lost, again if this is the case, which i think it is looking at the body language and lethargy of a good number of our players.

It's gotta be 50/50 imo.

Players have to trust their coaches and the decisions they are making or else it would never work. But after a while i'm sure some of the more senior players will start to voice worries to other players if they don't think the coach is handling or performing well. The key thing is tho how long is it before the players start to voice these concerns a week, month or two seasons?

I do think players have every right after a while to question the coach and his methods if they don't think they are working. At the end of the day it's a players career that could potentially be damaged or in a worse case ruined by playing for a club that isn't doing things right. If a player has serious international aspirations they can't always sit around and wait for the chairman to sort things out can they?

I’d expect senior players to challenge the coach if they feel things are going well. Would players such as Faz, Radders or Edwards stood for it if they thought the coach was damaging the club?

The best example of this was the John Dorahy season. It was an incomprehensible appointment, and led to catastrophic results of a type that Wigan fans hadn't seen for over 10 years. Thankfully we had sufficient numbers of experenced, strong-minded players in the team to finally sideline a guy who was patently an idiot and years behind Wigan in terms of up-to-date RL knowledge.

This time I think it's less clear cut. Noble's been in the SL cauldon, mainly successfully, for a decade. He can't know nothing. That must make the position of our senior players - none of whom can hold a candle to the likes of Edwards, Bell, Platt etc, in terms of experience and ability - very difficult.

I feat that if this problem intensifies, it's going to be down to the chairman to sort it out. Or Brian Noble (though if he can turn things round to our satsifaction now, I reckon it'd be a feat worthy of Houdini).

As i was typing my previous post i was trying to think about senior players in this team the likes of which we've had in abundance over the past few years and there are very few if any. God me miss Faz don't we! We need to sign at least one player next season who’s been at the top and done it all and has lead a team through thick and thin times.

Maybe this is one of the parts of why we are so bad? It's obvious things are working not out under Noble but we've just not got the players to force the changes instead we go on and on down the same path even tho it's clearly not working?

Spot on. Although for some reason I can't quite bring myself to deem it beyond Noble (yet).

Allegadley happend to us in 2006 when we got rid of Kear....was rumours off a dressing room mutiny and the one that got me was that Swain wasnt fit with a bicep injury......Kear goes and Swain plays next match.....we then went on a 13match unbeaten run and went to G/Final.

Hock was much the same under Millward. He was "out for the season" until Basil, then was back in once Noble took over.

A similar thing happened at Wigan when Greg replaced Raper, and when Noble replaced Millward.

But to be honest, it's difficult to work out what the common denominator was in all these situations, if there even was one, as every change of personnel is bound to be different.

One thing I don't think you can bank on is that ANY change of coach will be beneficial. Though I now have grave doubts about Noble, I wouldn't want to see him replaced unless it was by someone really good, and finding someone really good could be a difficult job.

One thing Wigan really can't afford is another high risk appointment - we've had too many of those in the past. The Andy Goodways and Eric Hugheses of this world were all disasters, and anyone with half a brain could see that they'd be disasters because they had zilch experience at high level coaching.

If we're going to jettison Noble, we've got to replace him with a solid professional who might not be flashy but knows how to get the very best out of his team.

My feeling is that the common denominator is the root cause of whatever ailes us, whatever 'it' is that's wrong with us s a club. The club management has changed and the 'it' situation hasn't got better, the coach(es) have been changed and they haven't changed the situation, players have come in and gone (overseas or not, good or bad) and they haven't changed the situation. On numerous occassions we are told of 'dressing room unrest' or 'player politics' that ultimately lead to some form of change. The only common denominator is the things that haven't changed and thats the players and club staff who have been there 'man and boy', maybe just maybe they are the problem. We keep saying constant change isn't good for the club, maybe it's time the 'constants' were changed, for a change?

Same can be said of Tickle?

A lot of things came out after that...Kearney not taking up option of 2nd yr due to Kears tactics,Carvell saying he had learnt more in 4 wks under Sharp than he had in the last 2 years...didnt name Kear but he was coach at the time.Players looking intrested again.

MG.

I'm assuming you mean people for example like Brian Foley and Shaun Wane. I love listening to Wane pre-match but would be a little uncomforable with him as first team coach.

You say its the players job to get on with the job, but its also the coaches, although we do not know whats going on in the dressing room.

Yes and No. Yes I think that collectively the back room staff needs freshening up and has done for some time now. No, because individually they are good blokes and I've got a lot of time for the likes of BF in the limited contact that I've had with him, it's just I think there's too much longevity around the back room and maybe they are victims of that. Same goes for the playing staff unfortunately. I'd love to see a team full of Wigan lads brought through the system but in reality that's a pipe dream, it's never going to happen, it's far too simplistic in modern day sport.
I've been concerned about the quality of lads that have actually come through our system of late, they perform really well up to and including academy level and then seem to bomb when asked to take the step up. It just seems they aren't equipped with the necessary skill sets and aptitude, I'm not saying that other clubs do it better because in reality they don't. The standard at academy level is rapidly getting past mediocre as you yourself will have witnessed. There's only so far toughing it out and ripping in will get teams, all too soon that will be found out by superior skill sets. That in itself is part of the problem, whatever 'it' is.

I agree entirely.
Like yourself I'm disappointed that some of the kids are not taking that final step up. My friends have spent hours discussing "it" and to be honest can't come up with the answer.


That was one of the reasons why, at the fans forums I asked for Wigan to send some of their better academy players to Australia on a short term scholarship. They seem to have "it" over there.

I spent an hour or so with a former Aussie International player when we about there for the World Cup trying to find "it"

We must be doing something wrong, or not quite right, but what "it" is I'm b*gg*red if I know.

I think "it" varies from club to club.

From the outside looking in and listening to others around the game i would say one of the reasons players at all levels reach a level and stagnate is that they get it a little too easy at Wigan regards treatment, they have the best facilities kit etc, and sometimes start to take this for granted and lose that edge/desire when things are put on a plate for them.

Hopefully some of the lads will be able to step up now the accelerate squad has been formed, it seems for that purpose.
IL & JL appeared to have recognised that from 16 years plus they did not progress as had been hoped for.
Maybe with coaches and conditioners in place the problem will be rectified.
We had eight players in the 17 v Cas who'd come through the academy.