Have I?

And this is why you are the most sensible poster on here (Wigan fans I mean

)

Mate, this very post belittles us! I asked if you recognised irony but maybe I should extend that to "damning with faint praise" too.

I'll also ask again; would you say "being unable to score points" is a reasonable description of toothless? If not, what is?

Going around in circles. I'll ask you again, is the fact that they were unable to score points not a reasonable description of our outstanding defence? If not, what is?

Anyway its nice to debate/argue with fans of your biggest rivals. You should be thankful to me and TYG. This thread has had over 40 posts just this morning.

How is admitting you are closing the gap, the coach doing a great job and you being able to score from anywhere belittling??

This is a proper my dad’s bigger than your dad thread. In a way it’s great because it shows we are back up there.

For me there is only one metric to determine who is the better team and that’s the league table so St Helens have that one (for now). There are things we do better, things they do better.

We are a more dynamic side with more pace and flair. St Helens are more structured, dominant and powerful side. It’s a bit weird, the tables have completely turned. We are taking over the entertainers tag and they are playing in a far more ‘Wigan’ way.

We should all agree that we are both very good sides playing completely contrasting styles. History does tend to favour the St Helens way of playing when it comes to October though.

Because he agrees with you? Have a word Stu...

Agree 100%.

No. See the subsequent reply from Egg Chasing. Maybe he/she needs to have a word too.

Very good point and is one of the main reasons why Leeds beat us 4 times in 07,08, 09 and 11. Invariably wet conditions and Sinfield kicking us to death, them completing their sets and piling pressure on us to come out of our own 20.

Because "closing the gap" implies there is a gap to be closed and that remains to be proven. As it stands, we are the ones with the trophy in the cabinet so, if any gap needs to be closed, it's you winning something to close the gap on us. Until then, any comments about "closing the gap" are condescending.

No, it's his opinion and he's entitled to it. You grading posters on whether they agree with you or not is what needs a word! Utterly condescending.

Thats not what I am doing. He's just not being swept away by cherry and white tinted glasses. There is still a gap to be closed. We've beaten you 2 out of 3 and are 4 points clear of you ergo we have won more games over the season. So does the fact that you won one particular game now mean that you are a better team?

So any team that knocks out City or Liverpool in a Cup competition are a better team? Ok.

Your own coach says there is and we are still the benchmark! Its absolutely laughable that you now don't think there is.

I posted a while ago about the arrogance that comes from winning and this post (along with your others on here) pretty much highlights it.

Saints do something - Nobody else in the league could do it, not a chance
Saints lose - They weren't beaten by the better side, it was injuries, poor Saints play, bad decisions etc

You're a great side of course you are, but as I said before the Magic game...stop coming on here and expecting Wigan fans to celebrate you as the greatest side that ever lived. If you want to talk about how good you are and not have people challenge it then stick to RedVee.

I’m not agreeing with anybody, I’m just simply putting my opinion across of where this rivalry stands. I’ve bagged Saints enough on here and have been called out for it by Saints fans, not happy that I’ll criticise things like Woolf clearly putting blocks on players turning out for the All Stars or my opinion that Woolf has helped drive this culture the game now has, of players milking penalties (ironic that he’s now calling it out) or giving away tactical six agains. I don’t highlight them to drag those debates up again but just to show there us balance there. My eyes tell me week to week they’re still a better side than us and we still have work to do. I think Matt Peet knows this himself and he’ll be working his rocks off to close that gap that’s still there. It’s a smaller gap than it was even on Good Friday and it’s closed by a whopping amount from last year but we’re kidding ourselves if we don’t think there still is one IMO.

I don't expect that. What I expected was some respect for the Hudds game in particular rather than Hudds inablility to score. Thats what has got my back up and if you don't agree then fine. Its expected that fans or rival teams will argue, thats the point of the forum isn't it?

I've not stopped posting because people don't agree with me. I love a debate.

I could second your arrogance comment by the fact that all of a sudden (in some Wigan fans eyes) we need to close the gap on them and they are the better team because they won the CC.

If you do win the Grand Final I'll righly laud it.

And you don't think you're condescending? I thought you were better than this.

As for what Peet says, you've already addressed this yourself. It's his job to keep a list on things, just as any coach would. Do you expect him to come out and say "we're the best team in the league and have now surpassed Saints"? I'm using this phrase a lot with you recently Stu, but have a word...

Still awaiting your definition of toothless if it's not an inability to score points Stu.

Despite the fact that some of your fans also feel there is a gap?

Yes toothless in rugby terms is an inability to score points. Thats not been in question.

Is an inability to score points also not reflective of the oppositions defence? Still waiting for your answer on this one.

Are you talking about the Wigan fans respecting it or across the game? If it’s the latter, I’ve seen so much praise for Saints post last Friday. Some of the media guys like Matt Shaw and Aaron Bower we’re lauding it and saying it confirmed Saints place as the best of all time. I thought that was OTT but that would go back to the general quality across the sport at the minute in comparison to a decade ago.

If it’s regards to us praising it, I can’t give it loads because I didn’t see it as I was at the Wigan game. Maybe it’s my biased eyes but there seems to have been very little fuss made this week of a guy who broke a 20 year old try scoring record. The game needs to be better at that IMO.

Not criticising your opinion NK. You're entitled to it as Egg is. However it's just an opinion. My opinion is that nothing has been sorted one way or the other and we're the ones with the trophy in the cabinet beating them on the way to winning it, so the only gap to be closed this season so far is them needing to win something. Everything else is just opinion and hot air.

I gave it to you when I said your Huddersfield performance was outstanding. What exactly are you waiting for?

If our definitions of toothless are the same, why do you object to me using the term in a situation that fits both our definitions?

Yeah I meant more on here. We got lots of credit from across the game and I understand your frustration that French's achievements were overlooked in a way due to our win. On any other night his 7 tries would have been way more headline news in the RL press than it was.

Mate, I don't care if Nelson Mandela thinks it. What relevance is that? There is a gap as I say. You need to win something to close the gap on us having already won one of the 2 major trophies. That's an actual, quantifiable gap, not an hypothetical one based on opinion.