To be fair though its not up to Saints and Wigan to lower their standards to allow others to catch up, its up to the others to raise their standards.

Amongst many other factors both clubs invest heavily into their youth systems and provide a conveyor belt of talent each year, some who play first team but also lots of others that forge a good career in the game at other clubs.

There was a brilliant pic that Saints tweeted last week of Peet and Wellens stood next to each other watching the closely fought Saints v Wigan Academy game just 24 hours after the Good Friday game. That's a good reason why both clubs are the best two sides in the comp.

You're absolutely right - there are some poor sides in the NRL and some very inconsistent ones - just like any sporting league. It isn't a league filled with Harlem Globetrotters like some seem to believe. They have far more resources but pundits over there still discuss the limited depth of the player pool on a regular basis.

Andrew Johns and Brad Fittler praised the X factor of Bevan French recently - he's a unique player with an all round skill set.

Fair enough but I honestly believe if Sneyd were at Souths this season they would be 3 from 4 not 1 from 4.

Sezer getting serious wraps and he isn’t as good as Sneyd.

I think also it’s a bit disrespectful to say he hasn’t had a gig at a top club Hull won back to back Challenge Cups, with him being named Lance Todd Trophy winner on both occasions, once when they beat us. Hull were a good club back then, not the shower they are at the moment.

Sneyd would do a job in the NRL, no doubt in my mind. I’m not saying he’d be a top player or at a top club but he is a prime example of the sort of guy who’d be wrote off by people who believe the NRL is 17 bionic men per team each and every week. I’ve just had a flick through the team lists from this weekend and nobody can tell me he isn’t better than Sezer, Hutchinson, Cogger etc. Those 3 guys hardly looked Superleague quality over here.

Sezer gets a starting shirt in the NRL, now just imagine for one awful second that French had announced he was going home at the end of last season and the club announced that Sezer would be his replacement, meltdown amongst the Wigan fanbase wouldn't cover it and can you imagine the mockery over on RedVee

There is no denying that the NRL is the better comp and I suppose having 17 teams (potentially rising) dilutes the quality a little but some people make out each NRL team has 17 supermen playing each week and our best players are comparible with their worst. For me that’s not the case, I honestly think more Wigan players would get spots in the NRL than wouldn’t, same with Saints. I know it’s early doors but loads of opposition Superleague fans said Smithies and KPP would be back in no time without making the grade, both have gone straight into the 13 and both are doing well, Pryce who couldn’t hold down a spot at Huddersfield is getting good reviews from the reserve grade and fans are calling for him to get in the 17 at Newcastle.
French I have no doubt would get a contract for a club as a half in the NRL, the level of halves in the NRL isn’t great at the moment but his game is better suited to Superleague and Wigan will be paying him a big marquee wage and have given him a 4 year deal, NRL clubs would likely be offering him less money and a much shorter contract, maybe you could say he’s not backed himself but rugby is a short career and it’s about making as much money as possible really, if French went to Oz next year on a 2 year deal for less money he would be 31 by the time his next contact started and the likelihood of him getting a big deal at 31 to make it worthwhile financially would be quite slim imo plus he’s got a better chance to extend his career even further over here.

I was reading a bit on Smithies from a raiders fans point of view. It stinks of the same attitude that some of our own SL fans believe.
He hit 40 tackles, ran 100m+ and did 80 minutes. He topped the tackle count and was pretty high up on metres made. Comments like wait until we get him fit and when we get him on the weights was pretty much the whole topic. It begged the question, how has he done all this while obviously so inferior? While the super athletes in the same team haven't hit the tackles or the metres, especially when both are combined in that same game?
Obviously some cracking players over there but not all are super stars. The depth and standard of average is better, leading to more intensity on a more regular basis. That keeps your better players having to play at a higher level more often. I also imagine some of our lads who have gone over and not made it and many NRL with almost careers who come here, are in the same boat as some young players of our own academy (like what has been mentioned). They end up with good SL careers but at 20 are let go from Wigan, Saints and Leeds because they was deemed not quite good enough at that stage. Some 50 games in they would be at the NRL average level or even more. Example players like Ellis who to me seems better than quite a few forwards on display in most rounds over there.
I think we are all guilty of the Raider fan outlook, Dupree is sort of an example of most of what I have just wrote. He was let go from Leeds, forged a reputation at lower level before SL at Salford then on to a GF winner at Wigan... He was a massive part of our role to that GF and his stats hold up well. I'm still guilty of that raiders fan mentality though ...
"Wait until he's Wigan fit" and "can't wait until he's had a pre season with us" and so on.
Maybe some truth but I do think some of it is a players attitude because of the path they have had to walk and a large dose of being in the right place under the right coach at the right time for things to work out.
Bevan was looking like a super star over there his strike rate was as good as it gets, injury at the wrong moment, allied to maybe the wrong coach and then maybe some of his own attitude or issues all ended with him playing lower grade. I think fans had binned him because of a game he said he was forced to play injured where he took the ball up once from wing. I'm sure both sides of that story are maybe true depending on where your standing.. What that did was give one of the most natural rugby players you could see a move to SL and Wigan. Both needed each other at that same point of time and I couldn't be happier they did. He found the team mates, fans, club and most definitely coach he needed and we found a player who's given us a highlight reel as good as any. If he does stay the full contract and can stay reasonably fit we will have seen one of the best to adorn the shirt. He is in that category for me.
I imagine that story could have many different paths and I do believe if things had worked out different we would be looking at a top end NRL player with if only he played for us wishes every time we saw some magic.

Take all the South Seas Islanders out of the equation and it wouldn’t look great.

The NRL would be like our championship if it wasn't for those islanders

Smithies with the most metres and tackles out of the forwards on either side, 60 minutes in to the game against Parra. Impressive effort against 17 blokes produced in a lab.

Criminally underrated player.

I don't even think he got the full props he deserved from Wigan or the fans. I know they rated him, but when you hear Rads say we couldn't have got Thompson if Smithies stayed, or see Wane not picking him for England - the obviously don't think he's that good.

Matty Johns on his podcast with Cooper Cronk raised a point on how players who struggle with form or the Nrl.. come over to super league to rediscover their own game and form.. before heading back to the Nrl.. he mentioned the likes of Sezer and Schneider.. on another point he mooted the idea that Nrl should buy super league, and we go back to winter rugby, so the Nrl players can come over and play super league whilst young enough.. and the Nrl can take our top talent in each others closed seasons..

I do agree he was massively underrated in this country. I can’t blame Rads too much for that comment though. I think Smithies wanted out and while we could’ve held him, it’s not every day you get the chance to sign an English replacement like Thompson. You leave it 12 months and you might need to go with an overseas player and use another quota spot or go for an English player who isn’t as good.

In terms of Wane, I think he’s held back on picking too many Wigan players at times to avoid criticism, I really do. The acid test will be if we get any games this season because nobody can tell me Wardle, O’Neill and Thompson aren’t in Englands best side or at least best squad currently. There’s a fair chance come the end of the season that Wigan should have 5 or 6 players in, plus guys like KPP, Smithies, Bateman, Williams etc and then Wane takes a battering, however right the calls will be.

Maybe it was the way I interpreted I, but I took it as Rads seeing Thompson as an upgrade. No disrespect to Thompson, he's been better than I thought he would be, but he's not as good as Smithies.

Wane, for me, has always made some baffling selection decisions. He did it when he was the coach here and he's doing it with England now. As many current/ex Wigan lads he has picked, there are plenty he hasn't too. The treatment of Faz, Knowles over Smithies. Not bringing Marshall in last year etc.

That's deffo not how he meant it
Off camera he talked about fighting his agent for months and months before he left

The comment was more in a "When one door closes another one opens" type, and that with Salary cap you can't have both (of course you can if you lose another top player but you know what I mean).

100% they did not want to lose Smithies
As for people not rating him, like anything else in life there will always be people questioning players, questioning the club, criticising someone or other who havent got 1% of the knowledge or skills of the people they're criticising, but there's no-one at the club who didn't rate Smithies as highly as they could.

Smithies and Thompson habe similarities but offer different qualities in certain areas

I’d have Morgan back in a heartbeat.

I had him as next captain, watching him leading the warmup he just looked a natural leader, he led the defensive efforts and his ball playing was improving. The other impressive improvement was in his discipline, he controlled his aggression and his performance didn’t suffer.

Matty Johns, and the rest of the NRL, can f**k off

Over Thompson? No chance


I rate Smithies highly but the ceilings of both leave Thompson far ahead. The one thing holding Smithies back is his lack of pace and athleticism which Thompson has.

At this current moment Thompson is the better player but the problem is Thompson struggles to stay fit and make the field regularly and is nearly 29 so you’d think is at or past his peak level. Smithies has a good injury record and is 23 and improving massively that’s why I would want Smtihies over Thompson.

It's not a question we'll need to answer anyway. Even if Smithies decides to come back to the UK in 2 or 3 years time, you'd imagine we'd then look to fit both him and Thompson in and by that point we may be able to do it if there have been some exits. They're both fabulous players and we've dropped on that we've been able to bring in a top class English player, at a time when one was leaving the club.

I look at Saints for 2025 and if Makinson is going to Catalans, they will much much the same if they get Tom Davies but if they don't, well, where do you go? You'll need to sign a much inferior English player to Makinson or free up another quota spot to go down under. I got told yesterday that HKR are sniffing around Alex Walmsley as well. That would be major problems if that came off. Again, if you want an English replacement, where do you go? and to go overseas another quota spot would need opening. It's a couple of great examples of how lucky we've been with the Smithies/Thompson timing.

Smithies has a higher celling imo. His development over the last few years has been phenomenal. We all know about his tackling and work rate etc, but he started to ball play more too.

Thompson, during that exceptional period he had, also benefitted from having a quality pack around him. I don't think Smithies ever really had that.

I'm not talking Thompson down here by the way. I'm talking Smithies up. I think he's that good.

I'd love to know if you're like this across the rest of your life? Do you just accept everything you're told, or do you ever form your own opinion?

You do realise that nothing is back and white and everything carries some kind of bias. Experts for the most part, just look at their area of expertise and don't factor in the wider picture, or wider impacts. There are also different schools of thought between experts too.

Going off on a tangent on this topic, I admire KR for his ability to make decisions, but he's wrong in his assertion that if everyone had access to the info he did, we'd all make the same decisions. I'd say it's a shockingly naive way of thinking too. I can guarantee you that, if you put the same info and resources in front of 100 people, you'll get more than one plan of action.

For the most part, I'm happy with the direction the club is going in. That however doesn't mean they aren't open for criticism, or that differing opinions aren't valid.

I didn't think this was a question of picking one or the other. I would have Smithies at 13 to replace Ellis and Thompson would still be my starting prop.

The thread got turned into which one you would rather have and although different positions (although Thompson can play 13) Thompson wouldn’t be here without Smithies leaving, I just my opinion to why fans would have preferred Smtihies to stay.