We didn't lose much in those years either. The odd rollocking, neither here nor there for the odd loss when you are wining most games. It's got to be easy to coach a wining team and one that has experienced players in it.

Wane now has to prove he can drag a team up from the deck and if his reaction to defeat is always to ball them out and flog them in training then eventually the players will not play for him anymore, you can bet on that. They will want him to fix the problems but if the solution is always the same and it doesn't work, what would you do?

I personally find the push up comments embarassing.

What next oranges at half time with a fag?

We are supposed to be professional, push ups as punishment is not that.

Give me 20 you lazy fork..

When Wane first took over he said he was going to do things differently. I could not believe it at the time and I am sure it was debated on here. Why change a winning formula?

He said it again recently:

‘‘I will always be a coach who goes by gut instinct. Being appointed Wigan coach was an honour but I decided to do things my way."

[urlhttp://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/shaun-still-wigans-wane-man-8443966[/url

I was keen for Wane to take over as I thought it would bring continuity but from the off he decided he knew better and I was stunned when he said that. He clearly still thinks it's "my way, or no way".

He has also said he would change things for 2015 and its clear we don't play the same sort of game as we did under MM.

The question is has Wane got the humility and brains to accept he might not know best and could learn a thing or two from looking to other coaches, one of whom would be MM?

Personally, I have my doubts but something has got to change.

One thing I will say is that spectacularly-executed face-palm inducing defensive blunders, such as the fistful Charnley provided tonight, are very, very bad for a player's career. No professional can afford to draw attention to his own inadequacies for very long before confidence is fatally undermined.

Yep - I saw that. Poor show from Bowen and I cannot see him getting a place for the Cherry and Whites next week. No excuses for doing something like that IMO.

As usual there is a massive OTT reaction on here.

At the end of last year Wane was touted by many as the only option for England coach.

We have been very poor with discipline and ball control. Sort that out and we would have been unbeaten in 3.

Last night seems to be the first time in a long time where we seemed to be completely out of the game.

Interesting test of Wane's coaching now . Think a lot of posters on this thread will be be very quiet in 2-3 months time.

I just really don't like Wane's style of Rugby. Drive it up in the forwards, nothing stupid, then put a move on in the 3rd and 4th tackles. It's SO predictable. When watching the Hull v Leeds game on Thursday, it was amazing how many times Leeds offloaded the ball, and it was a pleasure to watch. It created so much space and led to so many tries. We never offload the ball, it's Wane's pet hatred i think.

Also, our discipline is non existent. If Wane has anything about him then Farrell, Tomkins and Charnley will be nowhere near the 17 next week.

It doesn't seem too long ago that the majority of the posters on here were waxing lyrical about Shaun Wane's coaching ability and saying that he would be a major target for NRL clubs wanting a new head coach

I wouldn't have thought he was any better or worse now than he was back then,personally i never thought it was a good idea to let a fan be our head coach, he should have stayed as a number 2 or head of junior development

Couldn't agree more mate the wigan down under was a. Chance to show the professionalism of your club and represent the sport. It was all over sky on catchup and demand and it was nothing more than a swear fest, as you said. Typical of the rugby league raw program which was embarrassing to watch. I believe this to be the problem at wigan.

Our style of play has been exciting and brilliant over the last 5 years and I find Leeds' play boring. Most Leeds fans would agree that they don't use their talented 3/4s anywhere near enough, which isn't something you could accuse Wigan of 2010 - 2014.

The Wigan Down Under thing was really poor. So, they'd made the damn film, so they had to sell it? I thought it brought embarrassment on the Club; I never watched it, I never had the slightest desire to. Some things should stay behind closed doors.

I can remember when Monie came back for his second spell, Wigan had a mini crisis season in 97 and he started with improving fitness & discipline, playing the right players in the right positions (i.e he had centres) and played a simple structured game. At the moment we are short in a couple of those areas and I feel the players don't compliment each other> I thought selecting local lads would have created a natural understanding but theres too much individual and not enough team play. Also I thought Bowen was here to mentor the youngsters and I don't see that. Wanes consistency is in question with his selections, he drops some players but not others, he has his favourites (who seem to be undroppable) but coaches are supposed to treat them all the same.
I don't see any dividends from the deals we made with NZ Warriors and Saracens and its all gone quiet in Wales and Cumbria. Lots of dead end promises all of which were designed to improve the club. I can't blame IL for trying but stick to the basics- have a clear & transparent signing policy and only sign overseas players who can pass the baton of knowledge & experience onto the youngsters. We CAN improve in so many areas and the club management has a proven winning record so keep the faith

I wonder what Saint's season looked like at the start of last season?

Effort comments worry me, that smacks of prblems with the player and coaching staff relationship - player power coming back?

I think the biggest concern at the moment is our away form. I don't think we're looking at the biggest crisis ever, but I think last nights result was a continuation of the terrible away form we've had, particularly in Yorkshire. There's obviously something wrong with the way the team performs away from home. We used to be the very best at playing away from home. We were far, far better away than we were at the DW. For whatever reason that has all fallen apart and now we couldn't buy a win away.

There's no way that players can become worse just because they travel. The issue is obviously mental, or one of preparation or tactics. Whatever it is, it needs to be identified and addressed because we will never win any trophy if we can only perform well at home.

There do seem to be other issues in the side too. The halves have come in for criticism but what chance do they have? People say we're missing Green but he would be able to do absolutely nothing in this side right now because they just aren't setting the platform or giving the halves a chance. Our front row is not effective enough and the back row is let down by players who have continually given penalties away. Farrell and Tomkins are supposedly part of the leadership team yet both were penalised for dissent last night. Their discipline is terrible.

Individual errors are also costing us. The outside backs are most at fault here. Burgess, Gelling and Charnley in particular over the last few games.

We have some very good players in the squad. Farrell, Tomkins and Bateman make up one of the strongest back rows in Super League even with O'Loughlin absent, but only when they play at their best. Charnley and Burgess at their best are two of the best wingers, but for whatever reason both are struggling. Sarginson finished last year as the in form centre but he hasn't been able to create anything with the team performances being nothing short of a shambles.

I'm sure that discipline will be the major issue being addressed. If that can be fixed then I'm sure the team can start making some progress to fix the other issues.

Unbeaten till Good Friday.

Lots of over-reaction as usual and people going on about their own agendas which don't necessarily relate to what's going wrong right now. We are missing Lockers big time, with no one stepping up to lead the team. Smith or McIlorum should be doing that IMO. Penalties a big issue too, J.Tomkins and L.Farrell need reading the riot act.

I've always had concerns about Wane as a coach to be honest, ok he won the double but it was the easiest cup run we could possibly dream of. Not convinced we win the SL final without Ratchford and Monaghan getting injured either but maybe that's a bit harsh. This will be a big test of him now. Do we improve our discipline, direction and completion, or do we carry on just trying to aimlessly flatten everyone?

4 games doesn't sound like a lot but points dropped against Widnes, Hull KR and Castleford are points we'll need to fight for against the likes of Saints, Warrington, Catalans and Leeds

aye and so were leeds and look what happened to us?

i really thought us leeds fans were the doomiest and gloomiest, but you guys and unbelievable. i thought your unshakable faith in SW might have got you through a bad few games.... i remember being an MM last year and i jokingly made the "ape" jest about him, only time ive ever felt threatened by a RL crowd. SW was them fans god, now look at you?

its a bad few games, if your playing the same come summer feel free to restart these types of posts, but until then give the guy a chance.

Well, Napoleon always said he preferred lucky generals to good generals.... MM was lucky to have Lima, Hoffman, Finch...

Nope, we are far better than you at having the biggest moaning tarts in SL... lol

First thing I believe that Cas deserved a lot of credit for the way the played last night. They should have won at both Saints and Catalan and got some poor decisions against them. They were very good and deserved their win.

Now to Wigan, that was as poor a defensive display as I've seen in a long time, and bar Bateman, McIlorum and Manfredi every other player was below acceptable standards. Quite a few years ago Wigan lost about three games on the bounce under John Monies coaching. His instructions for the next game (I think it away at HKR) was to keep the ball tight, run it in and make ground. "I don't care if you get booed off the field for the style, just make sure you win" were his comments.

I do think we may have to do something similar for a couple of games.

The halfback situation needs sorting. In the four league games we've had Williams and Smith (twice) Hampshire and Powell and then last night Powell and Smith. Whilst I accept it's difficult for the halfbacks to play when the forwards are continually giving penalties away and as a team they are coughing up the ball I think we need some consistency at #6 and #7.


Last night there were a lot of calls for Hampshire and Williams to be given a go but that's yet another combination (albeit they've played together at academy level and International from being 15 - 16 years old) I can understand that call BUT they're both young and relatively inexperienced and it may do more harm to them than good at this moment in time. However they couldn't be much worse than the halfback pairing last night. Food for thought?

The stats are really not pretty.

Matty Smith conceding 3 penalties...
Charnley completing 8 tackles and missing 7...
Bateman doing so much work in defence that he could only make 46m...
Mossop averaging 4.5m per carry...
3 offloads the entire game...

Quote ="Wigg'n"The stats are really not pretty. Matty Smith conceding 3 penalties... Charnley completing 8 tackles and missing 7... Bateman doing so much work in defence that he could only make 46m... Mossop averaging 4.5m per carry... 3 offloads the entire game...'" Looking at the stats Tautai did better than I though at the game. www.superleague.co.uk/report/11040

Quote ="Wigg'n"The stats are really not pretty. Matty Smith conceding 3 penalties... Charnley completing 8 tackles and missing 7... Bateman doing so much work in defence that he could only make 46m... Mossop averaging 4.5m per carry... 3 offloads the entire game...'" Looking at the stats Tautai did better than I though at the game. www.superleague.co.uk/report/11040

Nice honesty from Wane here: youtu.be/gDdYWHy87qU?t=1m9s

Nice honesty from Wane here: youtu.be/gDdYWHy87qU?t=1m9s

You still have to know how to marshal the troops. Noble had virtually the same squad as MM and also earlier on was lucky to have an even better player, Trent Barrett. Still couldn't get them past the finishing line.

You make your own luck as a coach. It's your job.