Quote ="andyed-wiganrl", wilkin who although not world class are far superior to hock.'" even the Saints fans don't think that: viewtopic.php?t=398818

Quote ="andyed-wiganrl", wilkin who although not world class are far superior to hock.'" even the Saints fans don't think that: viewtopic.php?t=398818

go down fighting!!

I stopped taking your post seriously at that point





Watmough, Stewart, Laffranchi and Ellis don't/haven't play(ed) behind beaten packs like Hock does most of the time with us. Put Hock in the Manly or Leeds side and I think he would definitely be in the above players bracket

I can't ever remember Hock putting in a bad performance when the team as a whole has played half decent. His bad performances only ever come when we are down and chasing a game and he knows he is one of the very few players who can pull us out the

I'm not saying Hock's world class by any means but I do think with composure and a better head he would be world class

If Hock had composure and a good piece of equipment in between his ears what else do you think he would have to add to his game to be world class?

This is about OVERRATED Wigan players. Now people are talking about putting Hock in a better team. Doesn't this underline the fact that Wigan players (ones originally mentioned) are overrated?

You mentioned Hock in a thread about OVERRATED players, he's not so you were wrong right from the off.

Wrong.

He isn't world class. So he is overrated. He makes wrong decisions with offloads and shows a lack of composure at some point in most games, these aren't the characteristics of a world class player.

How many people rate him as world class though?

Just read around this site.

Oh and well done people for not mentioning the other players I mentioned.

Lets just focus on Hock hey.

But no sensible person rates him as World Class. He is one of the best second rowers in Super League at the moment and if his head meatures over the next five years will IMO make a world class second rower/prop.

If we're talking overrated players I think Tommy Leuluai has to be in with a shout there - especially at 7. Close range tries and big hits are not the makings of a first choice scrum half.

I feel were going round in circles. Everybody makes mistakes and certainly over the past couple of seasons the mistakes Hock makes have dropped significantly. As someone said before he has made 3 knock ons this season and given away 1 penalty. Thats a great improvement as this was an aspect of his game before that was stopping him being the force he is now. Unfortunately the composure that you say Hock lacks is just who he is and it is part of his game.

This lack of composure could result in a great offload in an impossible situation that results in try. Ive said it before if they come off hes the best, if they dont he's rubbish.

Hardly anyone has said he is world class, but even world class players make mistakes.

I think were just going to have to agree to disagree on this one

hock is so overrated its untrue...especially by wiganers.....he's nearly in the briers / wellens & sinfield category

Ok then. For the other players you mentioned...

Hansen isn't overrated IMO. In fact I would say he is one of the most underrated players at the club along with Joel Tomkins. Hansen is great in defence and when you get him running the lines he is also good he attack, he is far from clueless as you stated.

Sam Tomkins isn't overrated, its just us Wigan fans are getting excited about a hot prospect coming out of Wigan who has the potential to be a world beater.

Andy Coley isn't overrated he's just rubbish.

Its a bit unfair on Roberts he has played 6 games for the club, so give him time to settle.

I also dont think Lockers is overrated, if he wasn't captain he wouldnt get half as much stick as he does now. He only gets called when we lose because he isn't doing his job as captain, which some people think is single handedly win us the game.

Hansen - Great in defense and scores trys, plays internationally. You say average and no clue in attack.

Lockers - International, great defense, good hands and good attack. You say average.

Bailey - Average good defence, you can't pay for world class in every position.

Coley - You say should be hardworking and no place at Wigan. Unfortuanately he's not the greatest, but again with the cap not all positions can be full of Petero Civoniceva's.

Roberts - average so far, about one high ball he made a mess of. I take it you were writing Piggy off in his first game? Again, another international.

Tomkins (s) - You say overrated. When was the last time you saw a 19 year old play this well at Wigan? For his age he is awsome and has kept Smith out of the side who is apparently one of the best.


[iJust remember, this is a reason we have only won twice all season.[/i

The reason Wigan have only won twice is because you think the fans overrate players? That makes no sence at all.

I think you should go and have a lie down

Fantastic post mate

Don't know. But not from the fella who thinks Wilkin is a better player....

I think we do have many average players, but Leeds and Saints have so many average players as well, but they look good because they are in a great team.

Once we get rid of 5 players maybe more at the end of the year and get some better players in we will be better, but we still dont have the class that Leeds and St Helens have. Having average players is not the problem because all teams have them but they look great in good teams.

I dont agree that Hanson and Lockers are average, they are quality second rowers but Lockers is not a leader or a loose forward. Hanson can be good in attack but only when he runs onto the ball.

Bailey is very average but will do this season at centre for me as he is quality in defence.

stop talking crap tomkins tackeld his heart out like the rest of the team end of leeds was red hot in 1 st half , barrets gone stop living in the past there s not many in super league who could be classed in barrets league

well said

Who for?

Hock - on more than one occasion last season: Wigan struggling for possession, numerous drop-outs and repeat sets of 6 to defend.... Wigan finally get the ball and get in an attacking position well into the game, Wigan are behind but the game is far from over, Hock runs to dummy half after the 2nd tackle, no pressure, knocks on... scrum? only if he can keep his gob shut and not give a penalty away ... One of the most over-rated players ever to wear a Wigan shirt, seems stronger this year but still doesnt have 2 brain cells to rub together and will continue to lose his composure when it matters and lose us games... Against Leeds his mistakes may have been due to ball stealing, but why Hock and nobody else? Probably because Leeds watch the video's and know he has the ball security of a 9 year old... most players would learn from their mistakes and hold the ball a bit tighter, unfortunately you can't educate pork. And why would he need to work hard to improve when he can make a glaring error and still get picked the following week?

My mistake, I thought he had played in the 2008 WC. He's played for Country Origin though, so clearly in the "above average" crowd for the NRL.