I think had Gareth Ellis scored that try in the first half the score would have been a bigger margin. At best we managed to contain Hull, not the other way round.

Do you think Hull were much more adventurous than Wigan? As I said if those two poor bits of play didn't happen Wigan win the game. Wane will also be very disappointed with the defensive effort for the Hull 1st try. Up to that we'd wrapped the ball up really well in the tackle but for that try we fell off a couple .
Good play or poor defense? I suppose it depends on how you see the game.

[*

Sometimes the game looks different when you watch it back on TV; I've got it recorded at home if I can bear to sit through it. But watching live, I didn't think it was a good contest; I thought Hull, whilst not fantastic, were vastly the better side. Far from 'smashing' opponents, I thought Wigan were dominated physically, Hull are a big size, Talanoa in particular caused us problems. But that was the least of it. Houghton and Sneyd directed their attack effectively and we had no-one doing the same. As so often, we rely on getting a bit of individual skill from George Williams to bring us points. That's not how you win rugby matches against decent opponents. Williams was one of our better performers on a desperately poor night, and we all know he is a talented lad, but he deserves someone better alongside him.

So Gildart carries the can for the disallowed try? I'd have too see that back, but I'd be a bit sorry for him if that is the case, like GW he is a skillful young player, and if our 'attacks' die out with him being left with nowhere to go, that is hardly his fault. He's certainly more of a centre than Sarginson will ever be.

Defensively we were ok but every time we were near the Hull line we had totally no idea how to score - second half there were far too many players stood around leaving it to others to try and score. Smith was woeful , Sarginson his usual disinterested ball dropping non-passing self, Manfredi is a total waste in this team, the rest just clueless. Lockers looks completely not fit, only Williams looked like he could do anything and he is trying too much on his own due to the shocking level of mediocrity around him. That was the third totally inept attacking performance in a row from this team (one of many this season)

Something needs to change if Wigan are to do anything in the play-offs - otherwise the season will just peter out in a sea of dross.

I would start with dropping Sarginson (either Bateman or Higginson in), Smith (Shorrocks in) ,if we had someone I would also be tempted to drop Lockers as well.As for the rest s some serious backside kicking is in order.

We tackle well, we put the effort in, there's just no craft or imagination there at all. I don't really care how Hull played, I look at how we played and have we got that group of players we have playing to their potential. My opinion, even with the injuries, is that we haven't even come close. Yes we've got them defending, yes the effort is there, but we can't trouble defences.

I think that Hull, had they needed to could have been more expansive and taken more risks. I dont think we know how, when we try we make mistakes.

Home . Bad result but a good night out tho'

Regards , EW

Can't argue with that.

Backside kicking is all that SW can deliver and it delivers nothing.
This season is a write off unless SW has some form of epiphany on the road to Orrell and lets the players play which won't happen.
We have been declining since 2012 in terms of performance on and off the field.
The Bateman affair, London adventure, Tomkins incessant whinging, late changes in fixtures and SW constantly bemoaning referees as if every decision goes against are reflective of a poorly managed business with very little if any leadership from the top.
People keep mentioning "the move". We haven't got a move we offer absolutely zero in attack. We are on a par with the Noble era i.e. lots of endeavour but very little output.
IL needs to get his cheque book out and bullet KR, SW and the training squad. We look unfit and tired after only a couple of minutes play and run out of gas in virtually every major game. Last night senior players like SOL, Smith, Flower and Mossop were poor as they have been all season. All 4 need to go but none of them will as they are untouchable or on crazy money (Mossop £100k).
The club needs major surgery I just hope that IL has the appetite to carry this out because otherwise it will be a slow and painful decline to middle 8's or whatever they are called. This situation has been developing over several years and I for one am not surprised that we are incapable of even delivering a competent all round game.

The sad thing is that what you say is true. We have let attacking coaches go un-replaced and now we just train to defend. All good and well being good in defence but when you can't score you are just sitting ducks, unless the masterplan is to nil the opponent and hope we score 1 or 2 tries.

Last nights attacking performance was woeful and abject

I said last week that if Hull FC scored 16 or 18 points that they'd win
It's a shocking state of affairs that the above score is too much for us now a days

I like Sam Tomkins, but he urgently needs to start delivering the goods and to perform like a marquee signing is expected to perform
He seems a pale shadow of his former self and seems reluctant to take on the defensive line

tomkins looks badly lacking in confidence. He's also lost that blistering pace off the mark which was what gave him the edge and I'm not sure he has the skillset to be a better 6 than williams is looking likely to be. He was certainly the 2nd best fullback on the field last night

We don't have any props/back-rowers breaking tackles and offloading or getting a quick PTB for players like Tomkins to act on. And as pointed out on another thread, no one running off the ball or asking questions so most of the time Williams and Tomkins just run into a dead end. Plus every time we get into the oppositions 20 we are DESPERATE to score from a grubber kick we don't bother trying even a bomb up to one of our wingers (yet another game passed where we didn't kick high to Manfredi) or a switch play or a set move. We are predictable, boring, no second phases, no angled runs on or off the ball, we cannot break from deep to save our lives, we haven't scored from inside our own half for god knows how long and only a couple of players bother to try offloading.

He's also clearly not fit. Looked to me as if he was under instruction to avoid contact as much as possible last night and there's no doubt that the opposition would try to target his dodgy knees. One bad knock and he's out for 12+ months.

Since he came back, he's not taking the line in at all, he's looking for his winger whenever it's a last tackle kick return, he comes into the line attack and the ball is just through the hands. He's either severely lacking confidence or Wane is lacking confidence in Tomkins or his knee.

We don't offload because we have no support game.

Last night - Tautai, Crosby, Sutton and Bateman. All made a number of punishing runs breaking the first tackle and looking round to offload - NO-ONE THERE! They end up panicking and either throw a speculative offload that goes 15 yards backwards or just drop it under the pressure of the tackle.

Williams as well, always runs across the line and cuts into a gap looking to pass inside - again NO-ONE THERE! Our support play (or lack of it) is as big a problem as any element of our garbage attack at the moment. One up rugby is easy to defend against. And is boring as f*** to watch.

Waney talks about "detail", I think this is a "detail" he is continually overlooking

He was doing that before he left.

Cannonball tackles have the potential to wreck players careers
It's a shame that your coach doesn't feel the same way

IMO it would take a serious injury to a superstar like Sam in order for the RFL to make the required changes to this horrible tackling technique and to ban it

So is he going to avoid all contact and collisions now that he has signed his Marquee contract?

I want the Old Sam back,The one player that scared every side to death,The one that ripped defences to bits
We need this Sam back and not the one that is currently imitating him

Not to the degree he is now.

I'm not sure you'll get him back. He seems to have grown old and frail with the long fatigue of a weary life.

I think it is about time Wigan fans faced up to the facts, the days of Sam striding 60/70/80 yards are a thing of the past, this much he said himself in the pre match interview last night. He said that when he first received his injury at NSW he received bad advice, I think myself that the Wigan Club were Conned good and proper when the negotiations between the two clubs took place.
In my opinion all we can expect from the club is Wigan will nurse him as best they can to keep him on the field.

Now to the only creative player at present in the first team squad, George Williams who is tied to a piece of string 20 yards long never to go within 5 yards of the left touch line and within 5 yards of a line drawn down the centre of the field. I feel for George, he is supposed to handle all the creativity in the Wigan team whilst he is tied to work in such a small area.

When did we stop discussing Tomkins and start discussing McGuire?

I'm guessing it's a mixture of all three tbh. Like I said it seems as though he's being instructed to avoid collisions rather than deliberately, but he definitely looks hesitant. We all know he's never been afraid to take on the line in the past so it's very likely the injury is still in the back of his mind.

Banter aside, does anyone seriously believe Wane condones the cannonball tackle? but then again, given that you think it deserves to banned, you're probably confusing it with the 3rd man coming in to wrap up the legs, which is NOT a cannonball

Of course not, it's still only recently that he came back from his knee injury, which he's still clearly not fully recovered from and/or not completely confident to test out. I'm still hopeful we may see the Sam of 2012 again.