I would blame Mathers. If he could actually play at FB, then we wouldn't of needed to get rid of him and then move Sam to FB. Which wouldn't have resulted in Finch being brought over and him having to bring Hoffman with him as they can't live without each other, resulting in Gleeson becoming jealous and then...

"Joel wouldn't have played so much at centre. He wouldn't have scored that try at Wembley and as such wouldn't have seemed such an attraction to Rugby Union Clubs"

which is what i posted earlier in not so many words.

at 2nd row he would have gone largely un noticed by the rah rah boys

For all his problems part of me still prays he has sorted himself out, his fall out was more with Maguire then Wane or Lenagan and we'd sign him back.

The sensible part of me says though this guy is a waster and a leopard doesn't change it's spots and by taking him on would ruin a lot of hard work Maguire and the staff put in to make the place a hardworking and professional environment.

And who did he fall out with over on Humberside ?

The game in general is short of centres at the moment but I suspect that Mr.Gleeson isn't too bright a lad.

I did it about 6 months ago, because the job I've taken is more interesting and gets me out of bed in a morning, and there's more to life than money.

I take your point though.

But only when money is taken out of the equation, apparently.


IMO if he moves it will be down to a combination of factors, like everything else. With hindsight, we played our part by showing RU what a decent inside centre he could be thanks to Gleeson but you can't escape from the fact that £70K or thereabouts is not good moiney for a full time professional sportsman.

70k is good but 3-400k is much better and for doing an easier job. I could understand if it was 10-20k more and people were moaning because he was moving for the money but he stands to get about a 300% pay rise minimum. Im sorry but job satisfaction only gets you so far. Add to the fact that when he retires he could basically do what he wanted within reason for the rest of his life he would be insane to turn it down.

It depends whether you believe the £300-400k figure, which I don't. I was talking to an international yawnion defence coach a couple of years ago. he said then that the average wage for a yawnion player was £150k. I would expect JT to demand more than the average but can't see it being double. maybe a one-off signing on fee.

The union salary cap is £4.2m and you can pick a player of choice not to count on the SC so in theory your highest earner wouldnt count. £4.2m divided by 30 is 140k so thats the average but same as league it doesnt work like that and the better players will be commanding more so £300k isnt beyond belief.

Especially when the RFU may have their sticky mits involved too. If he is on 80k at Wigan and they offered him 140k i dont think he would of took that after what he said a few months back. Its taken a very good offer to get him to even consider it and then by the sounds accept it imo.

I was having a thought yesterday about his move too but it may be a bit crazy

Does anybody think that being in Sam's shadow may of been a factor in him considering a move away? We all know Sam is class and he gets all the attention and accolades and anyone outside of Wigan when they hear Tomkins will instantly think Sam Tomkins?

I may be miles off but could that of had a bearing?

I cant see him being jealous of Sam TBH, you can see how close they are when Joel starts banging the heads of anyone who gets cheap shots on Sam. Its the money and lifestyle what yawnion can offer. Joel could do the next 10 years in union earning 250k plus for basic then sponsorships and international rewards etc and be made for life when hes done.

I couldn't name one Saracens player but would guess they have a number of British & overseas internationals. I doubt they would be paying someone who hasn't played the game twice as much basic salary as the average international. Maybe as a signing on fee.

It's not just the clubs. It's the potential for internationals. England RU players get £15k for each international appearance (not counted on club cap) and there are, what, 10 internationals a year? Joel or Sam Tomkins could expect to earn £150k above their club salary, plus sponsorships and other breaks.

Add to that the fact that the RU World Cup is in England next time(2015), and I imagine they're looking at league players learning the game for a year, then being eased into the international set-up for another year, and then being regulars by the time the World Cup comes round, and that if England win an RU world cup on home soil the players are basically instant lottery winners with all the promotional possibilities, and set up for life after Rugby with 5-figure corporate speaking gigs and letters after their names. It doesn't bear thinking about how attractive the package is they can put together compared to being a local hero on a decent wage.

Just been on the Saracens fans website ( god help me), most of them have never heard Joel but think that £ 400,000 is ridiculous, "if he is only on £80,000 offer him 150,000 and he willjump at it". is their attitude.

They have a point tbf it is nearly double his wage and 400k would be ridiculous for an unproven RU player.

If that try had them getting the cheque book out they are desperate for players. It was a great try but come on.

In my opinion it is all down to the change in agent and the prospect of a move will have been on the cards ever since that change. You don't sell a player as the real deal based on one try. It is the agent driving this.

exactly what i predicted as soon as he signed for that agency.

advised joel to go to union
advised sam to stay a bit longer with a view to going to the NRL

that agents not stupid...he knows only Jel will make it in union.

btw..hes going.........from the mouth of Sean O loughlin to some kids on a school visit

Do they know that 300 of the 400k is being payed by the RFU?

As a one-off payment then, rather than an annual wage from Saracens?

Is that a joke? Just it sounds like "my mates uncles cat told my mates uncle that my other mate knows that etc etc etc"

Does this mean you will now refer to Sam Tomkins as Tomkins?

Does this mean shut up?







sorry I lowered myself to your level there.

no mate...its from the club skippers mouth to a class full of high school kids who asked him if Joel was leaving.

Lockers thought it better not to lie to the kids...so he confirmed it.

not my uncles cats mate....my daughter.

Nah as Logan will be promoted to the first team

It will make life easier in that respect.

Not much to take out of this deal for us is there