Spot on. If Morley and Peacock are still among the best props for England going into the World Cup next year then we might as well give up on this rugby league lark altogether.

Based on form, for the Exiles game without the NRL players, I would go with:

1.Tomkins
2.Charnley
3.Goulding
4.Atkins
5.Hall
6.Chase
7.Brough
8.Lynch
9.McIllorum
10.Mossop
11.Hock
12.Westwood
13.O'Loughlin

14.Roby
15.Westwood
16.Patrick
17.Crabtree

People are forgetting that MacNamara called up players who werent in the original squad for the Exiles game last season and could well do the same this season. Goulding and Atkins have been the stand out centres and considerably better than the rest, if the likes of Welham and Hardaker get picked before them then McNamara is an even bigger clown than I thought was possible.

Including NRL players:

1.Tomkins
2.Charnley
3.Goulding
4.Atkins
5.Hall
6.Widdop
7.Chase
8.Sam Burgess
9.McIllorum
10.Mossop
11.Hock
12.Ellis
13.O'Loughlin

14.Roby
15.Westwood
16.Graham
17.Crabtree

People are talking about Reed like he is some sort of star but he has been average/poor in every game I have seen him this year and a bit of a liability defensively. He certainly shouldnt be a shoe in at the end of the year if players play well in the centre positions in the Exiles game.

It doesn't matter who gets picked by McNamara, he couldn't motivate a dung beetle to roll some turd.

Don't expect the Wigan players to bring their Wigan form because they'll be playing in McNamara's system. Similarly, it's hard to judge how good players like Goulding, McIlorum, Mossop are at the moment becasue they're playing in a dominant team. I'm not a Hudds fan but put Cudjoe, Robinson, Patrick in the Wigan team at the moment & they'd all probably be impressing just as much, and you'd be saying they'd be included. Not saying the Wigan lads shouldn't be picked, just that it's no guarantee that they're international quality.

Strongest team vs. Aussies

Tomkins

Briscoe
Watkins
Reed
Hall

Widdop
Brough

Graham
Roby
S.Burgess
Ellis
Westwood
O'Loughlin

Robinson
Hock
Mossop
Crabtree

The chances of all those players being fit at the same time is minimal, however. Charnley, Atkins, Lomax, Patrick, McIlorum, JJB the next in line to cover injuries.

So the dominant team so far this season by some distance has only 2 players in the starting 13. Warrington who have been the next best have just 1 in the entire 17. That makes absolutely no sense when you compare the style and quality of these sides with everyone else in Super League so far. The players you are dismissing for playing in a dominant Wigan team have been a huge part of why Wigan have been dominant and have outplayed their opposite numbers in almost every game. Goulding and McIlorum have added so much to the side this season and are a major, major reason why it is better. As for Mossop he has simply been immense.

Come off it. "Starting 13" is irrelevent. I've put 4 Wigan players in 17. Hock would be ahead of Westwood in a "best 13" but he's on the bench precisely to provide impact after 20 minutes. Mossop would get as much gametime as the other props, but I'd start with Graham and Burgess, which is hardly controversial.

In case you didn't notice, there are also 5 NRL players in there. So there's 4 Wigan players out of 12 SL players. Sounds a bit different that way, no? Any happier?

Robinson is picked over McIlorum simply because of the texture of the team. Without a back on the bench we're screwed if anyone 1-7 picks up an injury and we only have a straight-ahead hooker to come on. In that event Robinson could slot it at half-back with Widdop moving to centre/fb.

Off form...? No NRL players

1.Tomkins
2. Briscoe
3. Bridge
4. Atkins
5. Hall
6. Ratchford (Been injured but every game he's played he's been...WOW)
7. Brough
8. Mossop
9. Roby
10. Lynch
11. Hock
12. Westwood
13. O'Loughlin

14. Burrow (Hooker)
15. Jamie Jones-Buchanan (Always performs internationally)
16. Hill
17. Crabtree

How is that off form when you miss out the top try scorer in the league? 21 try's in 16 games is no fluke. What has Tom Briscoe done this year to deserve to be picked over Charnley?

Also by the same token what has Bridge done to be picked over Darrell Goulding.

I stopped reading after Briscoe

Isnt Ratchford playing fullback these days? And Bridge at centre and with Hill on the bench.

Too much beer last night Horatio?

The way i see it is put Briscoe in the Wigan side and put Charnley in the Hull side and what would be the outcome?

I'm thinking Briscoe would now be sitting on the top of the try scoring league and Charnley wouldn't.

Bridge>Goulding

Bridge is stronger and has the ability to not just step his man of draw his man inside but also to run through them, Goulding is no where near Bridges strength.

That's clearly not off form though is it? The form winger is Charnley, the form centre is Goulding, the form hooker is McIlorum.

What you're doing is picking players who already have the experience (and some Wire players you quite like). There's nothing wrong with picking those who have already been there and done it but at least call it what it is.

No beer but some of us have an ability to watch rugby and understand it.

Ratchford has played in the halves this year and ripped it up, he's also stood in for Hodgson at FB and again ripped it up.

Now my thinking is play Ratch and Tomkins and have them interchanging through the game to confuse the hell out of the opposition, Tomkins is the better broken field runner but Ratchford isn't far behind and both of them are clever players that make the game look easy.

Hill has been our best forward this year by some distance and i even include Westwood and Trent in that.

Not necessarily true though is it, it's a team game doesn't mean they are the best in position just lucky enough to be good players in a good team.

McIlorum?

There are hookers i'd have in my team (imports included) who i'd have at Wire before him

Monaghan
Roby
Burrow
Henderson
Houghton

McIlorum is just a young Jon Clarke (his better days) for me

But how do you judge form if it isn't simply those who are playing the best rugby? And you may well take all those hookers ahead of McIlorum at Wire, but few if any coaches would right now.

You should stop now before you lose any credibility you may have had...

Yes with your amber and blue tinted specs on

Ratchford interchange with Tomkins







So has Hill been your find of the season? Probably would not have got a look in if fat@rse Solamona would have been fit.

have a drink on me Yed.

So you are prepared to give all this flexibility, with team selection and the what the definition of form is, to a Warrington player that has only played 8 games all season, filling in in 2 different positions as well. However at the same time you completely ignore players that have been outstanding in twice as many games and who have completely outplayed their opposite numbers in their set positions all season. Well done, that takes blinkered to a whole new level.

Forget the Wire hat, hang up your Wigan hat and think...this is England

I wouldn't come on here and go Charnley and McIlorum are Wiganers so i'm not going to pick them because i support Wire, this is England i want England to win not Warrington not Wigan, ENGLAND.

Club loyalties are just stupid.

Charnely ok lets go, he's playing in a team that creates almost double overlaps on every other play, you could have Ashley Gibson on the wing and he'd look fantastic, McIlorum plays in a very dominent pack, has players that don't get dominated in the tackle which makes him look better than he his, swap him and Roby around and you'd see how good a better hooker would be.

I'm really looking forward to McIlorum taking on the Aussies, he has that aggression and bloody mindedness that would get under the skins. You could make a case out for the other hookers but which of them would take them on and meet fire with fire time and time again. Or we could just play the nice guys again, roll over and have our bellies tickled.

Take no notice of Horatio. He is known around the forums a being the village idiot, trolling on other teams forums and then banning everyone on their site.

And yet still know more than you.

I am sick of fans of other teams making out some of our players are average just because we are playing so well. They seem to forget, or conveniently ignore, that we are playing so well and are dominant precisely because of these players.

McIlorum has been outstanding this season and offers more in a tense close match, where you dont get a quick play the ball, than Roby. Mossop has been great too and has a real physical presence and is a modern forward, not a plodder like Peacock etc. He is precisely the new generation of forward that we need to take on Australia. Goulding has been outstanding all year and is technically the best centre is Super League with a great all round game, the amount of tries he has created for Charnley with great runs and great timing of the pass/flick pass/basketball pass etc is unreal and he has created many tries out of nothing. Look at our right hand side this season and last, both in attack and defence, to see the contrast. Charnley is a great finisher and is a strong carrier of the ball. If we had a chance in the corner to win the game I would want Charnley there any day of the week before Briscoe, who has looked way out of his depth in every game he has played against Australia and New Zealand and who has never took his club form into internationals. The like of Tomkins and O'Loughlin goes without saying and there shouldnt even be a debate about these players.

What planet are you living on?? The reason Wigan are creating so much room for their wingers is because the forwards, halves and centres are creating space for them. Forget about Ashley Gibson and maybe put Chris Riley on the Wigan wing.....im surprised you havnt got him in your England team



Everyone knows your precious Dire will be a middle of the table average team once Briers hangs up his mop. Ratchford wouldnt even get in the Wigan team, let alone in an England team. As for Hill he defines your team.....over the hill