Probably yes.

He's so frustrating because for 3 or 4 games out of 10 he looks a top player but then he goes back in to the old lethargic routine.

I cant say id noticed him out on the field to be honesy

And as for Walmsley, any team in SL and most in the NRL would porbably have him given the chance. Top player

Nah, his style doesn't fit Wigan. All he does it make metres.

can he play ?

There's an old saying 'props win pots'. Without a superior engine room a team will find it difficult to win the arm wrestle putting the backs in the right position on the pitch to score and win the game.

In our props we should expect them to make the hard yards down the middle putting the team in the right positions on the park, in tern tiring the opposition through forcing them to make repeat tackles on the larger hard running props. In defence they tackle and do what they can to drive the opposition back.

Without the engine room we are on the back foot. However as much as the props need to step up what about the 9? They need a smart 9 who can read the game and the defensive line, scoot to make a quick 10-15, and provide good distribution bringing the forwards into the game, Cam Smith is the master of this.

Lee has been out injured for most of last season. He came back over here with big question marks over his fitness, particularly his shoulders. If he is feeling his way through games, then I can understand that. He will be gradually getting his confidence back.

We know he's a good player, let's cut him some slack hey? I'd expect him to improve and put more in as the season goes on. All the players looked tired on Friday - a two week rest will do everyone good. We are handily placed for the rest of the season, hopefully with Gelling back soon too.

You're surely not complaining about McIllorum?

More referring to the lack of interchange 9.

Undoubtedly he's a good player. I would say however that his running game isn't the greatest.

It's the same as our HB- everyone knows they are going to pass the ball along the line. Would be good if scooted every so often or through the dummy. At least it would fix a couple of players.

GW does this fairly often and has scored a few tries from line breaks this year.

Is his distribution and decision making also the best?

Its not Mossop that is poor it is the stystem we play. We do not need props tbh our best prop this season is a converted centre/2nd row.

If we had

Petero Civoniceva
Stuart Fielden
Shane Webcke
James Graham

They would have stats similar to what we have now. If Wane actually let his props carry the ball more we would get less errors and a lot more wins. But ehhhh what does Madge, Bennett etc know. Wane is killing our props. We might as well not have them.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - we desperately need two Terry O'Connor type props. Workhorses who do the hard work in the background but who you miss when they're not in the team.

Under Maguire we didn't have a prop in the top 20 metre makers.

I actually think he's a decent player.

He must be doing something right as he's played a big role for us over a few trophy filled seasons.

I think we spell our props too often tbh and that obviously effects stats like carries/tackles/metres.

I look at Tony Clubb and how he's played and I'd want him on the field for 60-70 mins a game. If he's not fit enough to do that then they need to improve that until he is. We're so robotic in our interchanges and it's not the way to go IMO. The props know however well or poorly they play they're still all getting equal minutes and it doesn't drive competition.

I want them all striving to be our number one prop and to want to be on the field longer. They all need to look at Jamie Peacocks reaction when they try to spell him at an important point of a game.

I do think the apparent, upcoming reduction in interchanges from 10 to 6 would give our smaller pack a big advantage in the coming years. Now whether Wigan were/are aware of this and have been planning ahead, I'm not sure.

At certain elements he's great, at others; not so much.

FWIW i agree with you but we've said he's not got a great running game, his distribution isn't great and neither is his game management



Key attributes really for a hooker.

How convenient that Lima was 21st top metre maker in 2011 and 9th in 2012 (still playing Maguire's tactics). Guess it suited your agenda though.
Maguire was blessed with one of SL's best ever 3/4 lines and Sam Tomkins scoring ridiculous solo tries. We don't have that now.

How can Mossop and Crosby be tired? Their minutes per game is very low.
I'm personally sick to death of "20 minute joes" who look as if they have just been on a SAS exercise after five minutes.
My nature is to give people the benefit of the doubt as I find most people do give their best but Mossop and Crosby have under performed all season.

Absolutely spot on.

Nail on head, this style of play is a continuation of what Maguire brought over. The people criticising Wane for it are the same who laud Maguire as a genius for trying to play exactly the same way. It's funny seeing the double standards

But if you keep on using the same nail, eventually it becomes a bit blunt as well as being bent and does not perform as well, also if the bloke wielding the hammer is not as skilled has the bloke who drew the plans it becomes a shoddy job.

Another way of looking at the Wigan prop situation is, are they match fit?, but how can any one say that when most of them are playing every week.
One explanation could be this system of letting the backs take on a lot of the grunt when in there own half and letting the props stroll about awaiting to do the tackling when the opposition get the ball on there own forty.
This comment is a bit tongue in cheek, but I cant get it out of my mind how once in the first half the amount of time it took the Wigan forwards to get back onside after a Salford kick which fount touch in the Wigan twenty.

Someone mentioned Jamie Peacock during this thread and it puts some of the Wigan forwards to shame when you look at the amount of time he spends on the pitch.

A quick look at the Leeds boards and many think that Peacock has already lost his effectiveness and that Cuthbertson is a shadow of the player seen in February, March and April. They didn't bother us too much at Magic after the first 20 minutes did they?