Eight first teamers Stu, who are those and who would they replace?

It is but Wellens has had the opportunity to give some debuts out earlier this season, as part of stronger sides and sides playing pretty well and didn't take it. It's not easy in fairness to him and I would say the Saints crop of youngsters are in the main a year or so younger than our crop and there has been more disruption at Saints with injuries (what's happened to that game leading/ground breaking medical department that was responsible for the lack of injuries in the past? It was never about luck I was told by some Saints fans, so I presume they've left the club) but there's no doubting Wellens is quite cautious.

Makinson
Hurrell
Walmsley
Mbye
Matauita
Whitley
Batchelor
Knowles

All out along with Wingfield who would be next in line for any of the forwards missing above. Apparently Clark is back but if not that's ten established players.

Comparing apples and oranges and being too simplistic

Cooper cannot stand upright amd make direct contact with attackers head, he had to get his head to the side or lower to avoid direct contact
Whilst it may not be intentional as such its poor technique and exactly what the rule was brought in for, to avoid direct head contacts which i believe are the worst type in terms of damage done

Comparison to Nu brown is ridiculous, the attackers head moved, deviated from its original trajectory because of an Iinitial.contact by another player and contacted his head secondary, the pure definition of accidental as he didn't put his head in the direct path of the attackers head

You don't understand the point I'm making. I'm not debating the mechanics of each individual tackle, my point is that punishing players for accidental head-collisions is ridiculous in a full-contact sport.

IMO it was more like the James Bentley challenge from last year where he'd have seen a card if he hadn't knocked himself out.

Don’t think there is really any other option, I really can’t think of anyone who could play hooker. If we still had Shorrock in the squad then a decision is to be made. It’s a great time for a player to come into the side though, we are successful and playing well and most around will be experienced first teamers, it will be an unexpected call but it’s not in an injury crisis like happens a lot.

Oh I absolutely do understand your point, I just think (and if I'm honest know) your wrong
It's like closing your eyes, swinging your arms and then saying oh I didnt mean knock his head off. Yes he didn't mean it, but he did things that risk injuring the other players with bad technique

Rightly or wrongly the rules are now head to head contact must be avoided so its incumbent on the tackler to keep his head away from the ball carrier, and if you go head on face to face upright with your head in the path if the attacker you risk getting pulled/penalised/fined/banned for it

If Coopers head had caught his head in a way that concussed/injured the ball carrier then he'd have seen red imo (or at least banned on review) and under the current rules it would be fair, the fact it was the other way round is incidental and doesnt matter cooper was the one injured.

Liam Moore ref, Ben Thaler video, no way is this finishing 13 v 13

Respectfully, I think you're the one comparing apples and oranges now

I know you've not done so maliciously, but you're making a strawman argument right now.

A careless and reckless tackle should be punished, absolutely. However, most genuine accidental head clashes should not be penalised as both the runner and tackler have a responsibility to ensure their heads don't whack into each other. Mulhern is running hard and Cooper is sliding to close the gap, it's unfortunate but a few miscalculations cause a headclash. It happens. I also don't dispute the ruling, but the new rules are just awful and I don't know any rugby fan that does like them.

I don't believe we'll come to an agreement on this so we'll just agree to disagree.

We are past that point and although accidental it still happened and was caused by Cooper. I have almost no doubt that Cooper got off lightly because he got knocked out himself and he would have almost 100% been sent off had Mulhern been knocked out instead. I personally think something like this should be chalked off as part of the game but it’s not and hasn’t been for a while, I also think that the fact Cooper got knocked out and not Mulhern also shouldn’t make any difference in decision but it always sways the officials.

I agree, I said to my partner at the time that I wouldn't be surprised if he was banned, the match review panels definitely reduced the punishment out of pity as he'll already miss the derby through HIA protocol.

Mbye appeal unsuccessful.

I’m happy with that.

Thank you.

What no additional matches for a frivolous appeal? What happened to that rule?

p.s. I am not saying Mbye should have got an extra ban.

Can we not appeal that? Hes dire

Looking more and more likely that Dodd has been dropped, Welsby to 6, Lomax to 7 and Robertson making his debut at FB. Huge call by Wellens and a last roll of the dice. Had he had 10-15 mins earlier in the season against the likes of London he would've been more prepared.

Now he's thrown in against the best team in the comp away from home.

Robertson hasnt played first team yet? or just not this season?

Nope, hasn't played at all.

It is a roll of the dice but it could also be a blessing in disguise as it will give you far more in what is currently a misfiring half back combination. In addition it's also looking likely that we'll be giving a young lad his debut in arguably the most pivotal position on the field which, along with it being only the 2nd game together for Smith and Farrimiond, goes some way to evening out Robertson's debut.

Again though for me its slightly different. Wigan are flying, high on confidence and have far less injuries. Mautautia and Hurrell are now believed to be out on Friday so thats Makinson, Walmsley, Knowles, Batchelor, Whitley, Wingfield, Matuatia and Hurrell missing. Plus Mbye banned.

We are at rock bottom in terms of confidence together with all those players unavailable. Its 4 of our starting pack missing.

Don't forget though Stu we're just a two man team in Field and French and one of them is missing, swings and roundabouts

I don't disagree with any of that, particularly with regards to confidence. I would mitigate it somewhat though by saying both Hurrell and Bachelor have been from average to downright awful this year so I'm not sure they're much of a loss and Whitley and Wingfield don't make it into your first team if everyone is fit. They're not dissimilar to us losing Cooper or Isa. The others are more genuine losses but then so are Field, Leeming and, particularly, O'Neil for us.

I'm not pretending it's even by any means. We're in a far better position than you because of squad depth and how we're playing. Plus we can afford to lose this game far more than Saints can.

Robertson is an outstanding young player. He and Jack Farrimond were "best in class" in their age group. I'm looking forward to seeing how they go on Friday if selected.