Both are going to Wire and Johnson to Wakey

That lad is a good prospect,,,,now here comes the question,,,,,,,Why is he going to Oz,,,,Not from the heartland so just asking....

Its now a certainity that Noble won't be here beyond 2010 at the latest so there will be change in the coaching department. That will bring new impetus and new ideas - hopefully the quality of coach will ensure that the new ideas will be good ones.

On the field the three main problems are obvious. Fielden's finished, Feka's too fat and the issue of Leuluai as a scrumhalf.

We at least have the option of addressing the situation regarding those first two players come next season's end. We must make a decision as to whether we believe Tomkins/Leuluai is good enough as a long term partnership. Like it or not, I believe we'll have a full season next year to assess that.

Other than that, I don't think the problems at Wigan are huge. Lenagan's philosophy may end up bearing fruit in a year or two as long as he does make the odd experienced signing or two to go with the kids. A shame that according to Webb's agent his visa doesn't look like arriving for 2010 but there's no point rushing to sign someone else who isn't the same quality. I do agree with Lenagan - overseas signings should be few and of the right standard.

Remember this is the same side who has impressed most supporters by doing very well in our last 6 games prior to the semi. We got outplayed in a number of key areas on the day yesterday and lost the match. Fair play to them. You don't cry about it - you take it on the chin and go again.

Hopefully the recent bandwagon of posts calling for Noble to be given a new contract - for 2 years, some are even suggesting (??????) - will now be derailed.

A couple of decent victories don't make a season. A team that only starts winning because it becomes battle-hardened by tough matches, not because it's receiving adequate training, will never win those fixtures that require a little bit extra. When Johan Dorahy was at Wigan, the team was already full of leaders and they were easily able to do their own thing. This team can't manage that.

For all the reasons stated above, Nobby is not the man to take Wigan forward. Hopefully that is now crystal clear, and we won't hear anything else from those who still put 'stability' ahead of advancement.

I would add to the above that yesterday we were completely unprepared mentally for such a big game. Exactly the same thing happened at Catalan - we went behind, and heads dropped right across the park. To me that proves that, where it matters, we haven't improved much - if at all - under Brian Noble.

Time for a thinking man's coach, time for a real teacher.

And of course it's really that easy isn't it, choose the coach you want, snap your fingers and bingo.

Just like signing the props you want under the cap, whilst still paying two big contracts for existing props.

For pity's sake, just let it play out and see where we are in the future.

And yes, i know everybody has waited a long time (but a lot of us waited far far far longer than this in the past before 1984/85), just stick with it, support our club, and trust me the success is all the sweeter when it arrives.

I don't know what this means.

How long do you want it to 'play out' for? Years? Decades?

I'm pretty sure the club's top brass don't see it that way. More than any previous owners, they've shown that they liken running Wigan RL to running a business. They know that if we continue to fail to deliver the goods, the support and all its positive offshoots will eventually dwindle, and that could be disastrous. You can't compare the SL era to the 1970s, when everyone was content to chug along at a snail's pace, running their operations on a shoestring budget with almost no ambition to improve. Stagnate now and you die.

Anyway, no-one's said that it would be simple or that we should snap our fingers and it'll all go away. What they're saying is that now Noble's come to the end of his contract (and he's had three whole years to make his mark), they're hopeful that IL and co have been looking at new and better coaching options. It's not simple, but it's clearly got to be done, or at least attempted.

Adopting your 'Hail Mary' model sounds like suicide. It's patently obvious, for all kinds of reasons, that we're still way below the level we need to be at. You can be as patient as you like, but that won't sort itself out on its own.

No cruncher, i'm acutely aware that in the cap era you have to let things 'expire'

Honestly what would you rather do, sign a player or coach now for 2010 as a stop gap, when you could get your preferred target in 2011.

We have two of the biggest perceived problem contracts expiring at the end of next season, for the positions where we need strengthening the most. Sign now and regret later, or tough it out and get the player(s) we want?

Same with the coaching situation

All i'm trying to say is unlike some posters on here, I don't think IL is clueless (you don't make the money the guy has by being that) and I trust he's doing everything he can to make changes to take the club forward for the future - it's just not always to every fans timescale.

IF we've got a really good coach lined up for 2011, I'd be happy to wait until then. I've said the same thing on other threads. But that's the only reason I can think why we should give Nobby another contract.

Signing players is different. I'm well aware that we have big problems re. existing salaries, though they must be a lot smaller now than when IL first took over. My view on the playing front is that we already have a pretty good team. I'm pleased to see youngsters being allowed to develop (at last). If we can get the odd world-class star in, all well and good. I don't expect that we'll do this often, or even feel that we've got a right to do this often. But here's the rub - the Wigan team as it is should be a lot more effective. It isn't being coached to the standard that other teams in SL currently are, and I'm not just talking about Saints and Leeds. Look at Huddersfield, Hull KR. Even Warrington look to be turning a corner now they've got a good man at the helm.

We so need a modern coach, who can bring the best out of this team.

I'm not talking about overnight fixes or one-season wonders. I'm expressing hope that IL has sounded out a new coach and that - now the Cup is out of the way - his arrival, and therefore a new era at Wigan - will be announced as soon as possible. Any way you look at it, surely that's a better option than just waiting to see if Nobby can eventually get it right?

to be honest cruncher i wasn't referring to you, i was posting in reference to some of the fans who continuously go mental because we haven't signed player X, or wayne bennett

All i can do as a fan is trust IL to do the right thing and be a bit more patient.

Just 1 question. What is the club doing with Hock's salary for the next 2 years?

I [ithink[/i that it still counts on the cap, because we're still holding his registration, and any player that is registered to the club has to count on the salary cap. Otherwise, clubs would be de-registering players all the time so they don't count on the cap.

If he keeps himself fit, it will be like a new world class signing in a few years and I think he will come back better than ever, he has learned his lesson and will get booood by opposition fans which will only make him better IMO.

If they're not playing staff then they won't count, Karl Pryce last year.

At the fans forum I think Il said that his wage would be used on some of the young lads and increasing their wages. 2/3/4 lads on £50K soon eats Hocks wages up.

Does that mean you know how much money he is on?

What does that Katrina know....

I've no idea what he's on but I think that's what IL said at the forum.

Haha!

Forgot about Pryce. In that case, can we not employ loads of the players' wives as non-playing staff, and pay them top whack?

I think the RFL soon cracked onto that idea when it was rumoured Renouf's wife was earning £100K for emptying ashtrays

Pure genius.

Well I have been away on holiday (though saw the semi on the BBC in Puerto Pollensa) and completely agree with the above.

What struck me having read the after match comments was Noble saying something along the lines we need to learn form this and it was a bad game to get taught a lesson or some such.

I thought that is what was supposed to have happened after we conceded over 30 points to Les cats in our last cup final semi?

As someone else has posted in this thread, no great improvement under Noble is there?

As to recruitment the thread with the link to the WEP article where it seems we are going with the players we have for 2010 then I think your hopes for new players in the positions you want will be dashed.

The idea it's a good thing to spend 4 x £50K on juniors rather than £200K on a class player doesn't really work if sides that have done the latter are the ones that win the trophies. It's a balance of experience and youth and while blowing all the cap on a couple of players won't work a side devoid of class and full of inexperienced players won't prosper. I also find the focus on home grown talent a bit ironic form IL when he employed Roberts a year early on a four year deal and Roberts has controversially kept out a home grown player.

It's interesting to see some of the threads that have cropped up since I have been away. Roberts has got some stick for his defence I see - justifiably IMO and of course Noble gets a lot of the blame for being out coached, also justifiably IMO.

Unfortunately I can't see much changing in 2010. If what I read about Noble not waning to coach in SL after 2010 is correct and the lack of recruitment also proves correct we will, I think, have the same coach for one more season and will be re-running many of this seasons threads next year, Noble's selection policy, Noble's tactics, unfit players, Roberts v Ainscough, Feka is too fat, TL isn't a 7 etc.

Not a good couple of weeks to be a Wigan fan, thank God for Sangria.

Dave

The biggest let down IMO as that could have an impact on 2011. If we get a new coach for next year he can spend the year adjusting and do the best he can and then sign the players he wants.

One of my biggest annoyances from Saturday (and most games that we lose) is that we never seem to save time by packing the scrum and having the clock stopped. Why?

Instead we seem to stand there chatting IN SCRUMMING POSITIONS but just don't pack down. Seven or eight times we could have saved 10-20 seconds. Had it mattered at the end and the score was still 6 pts then we could have had an extra minute and a half or so. (not major I know, but it's there)

Watch the Sts game on Sunday and EVERY chance they got, even on half time, they packed the scrum and the ref stopped the clock. We seem happy to let time run away from us.

Gareth Hock is automatically de-registered by the RFL - he is no longer a RL player, therefore whatever salary Wigan want to pay him for 2 years wont count on the cap.

most of the time it is James Graham who drags them all in, and gets the clock stopped - when he isnt on, the same urgency isnt there.