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This is the thing that really irritates me as a rugby fan. Yes McIlorum hit a few players hard, but 'outstanding' because of it? It's not just confined to McIlorum either, seems that a few big hits counts for a lot more than a player's general play in fans eye's
His distribution was poor and how a hooker can be pulled back for 2 forward passes from the ptb is incredible, especially in a big game where you were desperate for some ball. Not forgetting that stupid late hit on the kicker too?
Yeah, bravo
Why no thread about Pettybourne, SOL or Burgess who were actually very impressive?
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Lockers was our best player. But McM has become overall one of the best 9s in the game, alongside Roby.
Sad thing is I can't see McM being at Wigan much longer, I hate to say it, and people will undoubtedly misunderstand my next comment, but he's now too good for Wigan, or any SL team. Same goes for Charnley.
Lockers, a 1 club man who's good enough to play NRL are a dying breed at Wigan.
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| Quote ="Last Son of Wigan"Lockers was our best player. But McM has become overall one of the best 9s in the game, alongside Roby.
Sad thing is I can't see McM being at Wigan much longer, I hate to say it, and people will undoubtedly misunderstand my next comment, but he's now too good for Wigan, or any SL team. Same goes for Charnley.
Lockers, a 1 club man who's good enough to play NRL are a dying breed at Wigan.'"
Is O'Loughlin not too good for Wigan then if you think McIlorum is? O'Loughlin is definitely the better of the two in my opinion.
McIlorum is a good player but he isn't the best in SL and he certainly isn't one of the best in the world. For every big hit he does, he either misses a tackle or throws a poor pass.
To suggest he is too good for SL is well wide of the mark. |
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| Quote ="Last Son of Wigan"Lockers was our best player. But McM has become overall one of the best 9s in the game, alongside Roby.
Sad thing is I can't see McM being at Wigan much longer, I hate to say it, and people will undoubtedly misunderstand my next comment, but he's now too good for Wigan, or any SL team. Same goes for Charnley.
Lockers, a 1 club man who's good enough to play NRL are a dying breed at Wigan.'"
But why are only Wigan plundered, there are some other good players out there, albeit not enough. The likes of Crabtree, Roby, Houghton, Watkins, Hall, Hardacre could give it a shake over there but seem to go under the radar. |
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| Quote ="Finfin"But why are only Wigan plundered, there are some other good players out there, albeit not enough. The likes of Crabtree, Roby, Houghton, Watkins, Hall, Hardacre could give it a shake over there but seem to go under the radar.'"
Roby has now turned down 3 NRL offers to stay at Saints. It's not that all other players go under the radar, it's just that it doesn't appeal to everyone the same.
And don't forget Bradford lost 3 Burgess brothers, Leeds lost Luke Burgess and Saints lost James Graham. |
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| Quote ="The Yellow Giraffe"Roby has now turned down 3 NRL offers to stay at Saints. It's not that all other players go under the radar, it's just that it doesn't appeal to everyone the same.
And don't forget Bradford lost 3 Burgess brothers, Leeds lost Luke Burgess and Saints lost James Graham.'"
Its about attitude (of the respective chairmen) IL is a great chairmen and has done so much for wigan, but he does need to get tougher with respect to players going. The NRL teams know Wigan wont even try and stop players leaving, they probably treated the WCC as a shopping trip.
Sam was a special case, it was always going to be very hard to keep someone that special. The other players you've lost though, under contract? IL should set a marker down with Charnley and do what it takes to keep him. |
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| Quote ="The Yellow Giraffe"Roby has now turned down 3 NRL offers to stay at Saints. It's not that all other players go under the radar, it's just that it doesn't appeal to everyone the same.
And don't forget Bradford lost 3 Burgess brothers, Leeds lost Luke Burgess and Saints lost James Graham.'"
It seems a bigger Wigan issue than anyone other clubs but you are right Saints have lost not just Graham but Eastmond went as well. Its an issue in the game as its weakening SL year on year. Maybe the reason Roby has turned down 3 offers is that now is he not in the same situation as SOL he has some exemption on the cap as playing for Saints for over a certain amount of years. So at his age now its not worth it to go down to the NRL especially if he has a family and is on top wages in Saints.
NRL do seem to be targeting younger players with no family or kids. |
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I wonder why the Rhinos seem to be able to keep hold of Hall and Watkins?
I don't know the answer. You would think that they wouldn't be short of offers. Hall had a great World Cup and Watkins is probably the best young British back in super league now that Sam has gone. Leeds seem to be able to keep their talent better than either Wigan or Saints.
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| Quote ="Aboveusonlypie"I wonder why the Rhinos seem to be able to keep hold of Hall and Watkins?
I don't know the answer. You would think that they wouldn't be short of offers. Hall had a great World Cup and Watkins is probably the best young British back in super league now that Sam has gone. Leeds seem to be able to keep their talent better than either Wigan or Saints.'"
Well, you have named two, the rest of their "talent" is too old, or not good enough individually... We have a crop, just as the big bucks have become available to the NRL and the RFU.
Or, maybe it's that Wigans players, like Wigan fans, are more ambitious. |
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thought mm was ok yesterday but not as good as some of the posts here. forward passes, late hits on kicker and struggling for fitness (one whole set in 2nd half he never made it to dummy half when we needed him) says to me I've seen him play better.
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| Quote ="Saint Simon"Its about attitude (of the respective chairmen) IL is a great chairmen and has done so much for wigan, but he does need to get tougher with respect to players going. The NRL teams know Wigan wont even try and stop players leaving, they probably treated the WCC as a shopping trip.
Sam was a special case, it was always going to be very hard to keep someone that special. The other players you've lost though, under contract? IL should set a marker down with Charnley and do what it takes to keep him.'"
IL will not pay more than what he feels is acceptable for any one player. Since this type of attitude is what got us into trouble under the DW/ML era, i'm thankful for that. If players want to leave for more money - then so be it, I have every confidence we have the ability to replace any player - yes even including Sam Tomkins.
I'm quite proud of the fact IL has to confidence & business savvy to not have the club held to ransom. |
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| Quote ="Jeff the God of Biscuits"IL will not pay more than what he feels is acceptable for any one player. Since this type of attitude is what got us into trouble under the DW/ML era, i'm thankful for that. If players want to leave for more money - then so be it, I have every confidence we have the ability to replace any player - yes even including Sam Tomkins.
I'm quite proud of the fact IL has to confidence & business savvy to not have the club held to ransom.'"
Sam Tomkins didn't hold IFL to ransom? Lee Mossop also? IIRC doesn't Geoff Lima also come into this category? |
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| Quote ="Wigan Peer"Well, you have named two, the rest of their "talent" is too old, or not good enough individually... We have a crop, just as the big bucks have become available to the NRL and the RFU.
Or, maybe it's that Wigans players, like Wigan fans, are more ambitious.'"
Not sure of your reasoning here? I did name two - Hall and Watkins - and you seem to dismiss them as unambitious.
Also you say the others are not good enough. You think Lee Mossop is so much better than anything the Rhinos have?
As for the fans - how can Leeds fans demonstrate their ambition? They do get bigger crowds than us after all. |
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| Quote ="Aboveusonlypie"Not sure of your reasoning here? I did name two - Hall and Watkins - and you seem to dismiss them as unambitious.
Also you say the others are not good enough. You think Lee Mossop is so much better than anything the Rhinos have?
As for the fans - how can Leeds fans demonstrate their ambition? They do get bigger crowds than us after all.'"
Hall and Watkins may be easier to accommodate within their cap/spend...
Yes.
We have much higher expectations, thats why we are not liked... |
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| Quote ="Wigan Peer"Hall and Watkins may be easier to accommodate within their cap/spend...
Yes.
We have much higher expectations, thats why we are not liked...'"
They still couldn't afford to pay them what an NRL club could afford
Surely not!
Agreed! |
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As usual MM was ferocious in defence and showed wonderful commitment.
There were a few occasions where he was completely off the pace though, struggling to get into dh (leading to some sets falling apart in decent positions), some woeful distribution and the obligatory foul play penalty.
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The thing about the Roosters is they played a squad that no Super League club could afford to come close to in quality. Sonny Bill alone is more than a SL club could afford if they were to have a quality side.
No use talking about the expansion of the WCC unless and until the disparity in salary cap is addressed and narrowed.
If it were expanded and their SC increased at the same rate as their central funding whilst our remained static at £1.8m then yesterday's 36-14 defeat would seem like a close run thing.
Whether our SC will rise when we get to the 8 team Super League next year I don't know. If Hetherington etc wants to expand the WCC then they have to at least double our SC to have any hope at all of our clubs competing with the top NRL clubs.
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| Quote ="Father Ted"The thing about the Roosters is they played a squad that no Super League club could afford to come close to in quality. Sonny Bill alone is more than a SL club could afford if they were to have a quality side.
No use talking about the expansion of the WCC unless and until the disparity in salary cap is addressed and narrowed.
If it were expanded and their SC increased at the same rate as their central funding whilst our remained static at £1.8m then yesterday's 36-14 defeat would seem like a close run thing.
Whether our SC will rise when we get to the 8 team Super League next year I don't know. If Hetherington etc wants to expand the WCC then they have to at least double our SC to have any hope at all of our clubs competing with the top NRL clubs.'"
Difficult to disagree with what you say to expand the WCC at this stage is pointless and to be honest i don't see the cap being increased significantly due to the dire state of the finances and the club owners show no desire including our own. |
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In my view, expanding the competition would be disastrous.
Take a look at the 1997 tournament for an illustration of how badly things could go. We could also argue that we were closer to the Aussies then
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_World ... ampionship
The comp was rigged to get 4 English teams play 4 Aussie teams at the Quarter Final stage. We lost all 4 games. Add that to the poor crowds and it was never attempted again.
Since then until very recently Aussie teams have treated the WCC as an extended -up, until regular beatings made them change. I still don't think they are that bothered. Take a look at the muted celebrations by their team on Saturday and the disinterest shown by Jennings upon being told he is the only player to score a hat-trick. It was sort of like "so what".
Although the game on Saturday could be considered a success. Let's say Wire had played, they would have had 60 put on them, and the stadium would have been empty. Added to that if Wigan win the GF this season will that many fans travel again? I doubt it. Wigan were ambitious playing over there and it remains to be seen what the long term consequences are. I think we are better off playing the game over here as per usual. Having the odds stacked in our favour will keep it close. Playing regularly over in Australia will only exaggerate the disparity. |
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In my view, expanding the competition would be disastrous.
Take a look at the 1997 tournament for an illustration of how badly things could go. We could also argue that we were closer to the Aussies then
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_World ... ampionship
The comp was rigged to get 4 English teams play 4 Aussie teams at the Quarter Final stage. We lost all 4 games. Add that to the poor crowds and it was never attempted again.
Since then until very recently Aussie teams have treated the WCC as an extended -up, until regular beatings made them change. I still don't think they are that bothered. Take a look at the muted celebrations by their team on Saturday and the disinterest shown by Jennings upon being told he is the only player to score a hat-trick. It was sort of like "so what".
Although the game on Saturday could be considered a success. Let's say Wire had played, they would have had 60 put on them, and the stadium would have been empty. Added to that if Wigan win the GF this season will that many fans travel again? I doubt it. Wigan were ambitious playing over there and it remains to be seen what the long term consequences are. I think we are better off playing the game over here as per usual. Having the odds stacked in our favour will keep it close. Playing regularly over in Australia will only exaggerate the disparity. | |
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| Quote ="tank123"Sinfield won the best player in the world over a year ago. He is not even the best player at his club.'"
He's probably not even the best player in his street  |
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| Quote ="nikos"He's probably not even the best player in his street
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does he live in Wigan?  |
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| Quote ="nikos"He's probably not even the best player in his street
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Need to put that on a T Shirt. |
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| Quote ="[Gareth"does he live in Wigan?
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only SOL is as gd as sinfield in the wigan team imo, and he hasnt won anything near as much as sinfield pmsl |
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Agree with most on this one: ferocious in defence, but still a liability at times. Those forward passes were inexcusable, and I think Lockers ran out of dummy half more than MM. IMO MM should be doing a lot more in attack...
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| Quote ="mike1993"only SOL is as gd as sinfield in the wigan team imo, and he hasnt won anything near as much as sinfield pmsl'"
Thanks for that and here's me still wondering how we did the double last season. |
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